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A new turn in the Ukraine war and a strange claim on the ABC debate

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  4 weeks ago  •  167 comments

A new turn in the Ukraine war and a strange claim on the ABC debate
"I have seen and read the affidavit and after the attorney blacks out the name of the whistleblower and other information that could dox the whistleblower, I will release the full affidavit. I will be releasing the affidavit before the weekend is out."

Link to quote: Kamala Harris-Donald Trump Debate Was Rigged? ABC Whistleblower Claims Surface (msn.com)


Let me first dispense with this unproven allegation which first appeared on social media.

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The story is now starting to appear in print media. Basically, someone who calls themselves "Black Insurrectionist" has issue the following statement:

"I will be releasing an affidavit from an ABC whistleblower regarding the debate. I have just signed a non-disclosure agreement with the attorney of the whistleblower. The affidavit states how the Harris campaign was given sample question which were essentially the same questions that were given during the debate and separate assurances of fact checking Donald Trump and that she would NOT be fact checked.

Accordingly, the affidavit states several other factors that were built into the debate to give Kamala a significant advantage. I have seen and read the affidavit and after the attorney blacks out the name of the whistleblower and other information that could dox the whistleblower, I will release the full affidavit. I will be releasing the affidavit before the weekend is out."

Kamala Harris-Donald Trump Debate Was Rigged? ABC Whistleblower Claims Surface (msn.com)

This claim has yet to be verified. The claim was made in a very unprofessional manner. I don't even like to highlight such stories until they are proven, but I only mention this one because I still recall when Donna Brazile provided Hillary Clinton with answers and IMO ABC is capable of doing something like this. Even more in my mind was that little conversation the Harris campaign had with ABC before agreeing to the debate:

"ABC News has offered assurances to the Harris campaign that if there is significant cross talk between Harris and Trump, the network may choose to turn on the mics so that the public can understand what is happening, the moderator would discourage either candidate from interrupting constantly and the moderator would also work to explain to viewers what is being said, according to the source familiar," CNN reported.

The source allegedly added that pool reporters will also be in the room to report on what could be heard while mics are muted to TV audiences.

An ABC spokesperson told Fox News Digital, "Beyond the debate rules published today, which were mutually agreed upon by two campaigns on May 15, we have made no other agreements. We look forward to moderating the presidential debate next Tuesday."

Harris campaign agrees to ABC presidential debate rules with some 'assurances:' report | Fox News

 Harris won the debate, yet didn't get much if any bump. The media must be angry, and the Harris campaign wants another debate. Many people say they still don't know what she stands for.



On to the Russian fortunes of war.

Not since the early months of the war have front lines shifted as swiftly as they have in the past several weeks. The front lines had been stagnant for many months up until recently. in February, Russia broke through a dense maze of Ukrainian defenses in the city of Avdiivka, an industrial city that had been a Ukrainian stronghold since 2014. Russia ground through defensive positions in fields east of Pokrovsk, a city built around a crucial road and railroad junction, this summer. This is a very serious matter for Ukraine.

Ukraine was in a tough spot and responded with a risky surprise attack in the north. Troops surged into Russia, hoping to draw forces away from the battle for Pokrovsk. Unfortunately, Russian forces didn't take the bait.

For the military details, I like the way the strategy game maker ( Kings & Generals ) presents it:




President Biden is poised to let Ukraine launch long range western weapons deep into Russia, as long as it doesn’t use U.S.-provided arms, officials said.


In other news:


Israel conducted a raid in Syria that obliterated a Hezbollah missile production facility near the Lebanese border, according to American officials.

Donald Trump, campaigning in Arizona, called for the elimination of taxes on overtime.

Alabama has mailed the first absentee ballots for the 2024 election, which is a distant 53 days away.

Speaker Mike Johnson faces a Sept. 30 deadline to fund the government. He’s caught between a hard right that wants to cut spending and mainstream Republicans who fear a shutdown will be blamed on them, endangering their reelection.

Polio is spreading quickly through Pakistan.

Boeing workers are striking for the first time since 2008.




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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago


Good morning.

The New York City police commissioner is stepping down.

13themorning-nl-ztbw-jumbo.jpg

Federal agents seized his cellphone last week as part of an investigation into his twin brother’s nightclub security business. The federal investigation is one of four that touch top city officials. Others involve the mayor’s dealings with Turkey, and the head of the school system. I don't think I have to mention the condition of the state's legal system.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago
This claim has yet to be verified. The claim was made in a very unprofessional manner. I don't even like to highlight such stories until they are proven, but I only mention this one because ...

... and yet it leads your article. would it really matter, since the maga cult leader can't answer any direct questions? this past debate was an example of role reversal from the last trump/biden debate. only this time trump was demonstrating his age and lack of focus. he failed in showing the voters he is ready for the office, again, with his lack of preparation, his inability to stay on topic, any degree of professionalism and a complete lack of appearing anywhere close to being presidential. despite his claims now that he won the debate, it is now crystal clear to any viewer that trump is unfit to lead.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1    4 weeks ago
and yet it leads your article. would it really matter, since the maga cult leader can't answer any direct questions?

If I was a "progressive," I would want that rumor proven false. Wouldn't you?

That is why it is important.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

I am progressive and I don't think any time needs to be wasted on baseless maga conspiracies...

I would have gone with the "kamala's earrings were earphones used to give her the answers" theory...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.2    4 weeks ago
I am progressive and I don't think any time needs to be wasted on baseless maga conspiracies...

I think a hoax needs to be nipped in the bud. Look at how many still believe the Russia hoax.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif Yeah, that's the ticket!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    4 weeks ago
Look at how many still believe the Russia hoax.

probably 90% of libs here, and more like 50% in real life.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.5    4 weeks ago

Agreed.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    4 weeks ago
I think a hoax needs to be nipped in the bud. Look at how many still believe the Russia hoax.

tell bill barr, he didn't help the maga cause by redacting the mueller report and then classifying parts of it.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.7    4 weeks ago

Tell Andrew Weissmann that we want all those text messages the Mueller team deleted.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.1.7    4 weeks ago
tell bill barr, he didn't help the maga cause by redacting the mueller report and then classifying parts of it.

Sure, right after Hillary 'fesses up and tells how she started the Russian hoax thing!

You know, the hoax liberals largely drank up.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.1.7    4 weeks ago

The former 'president's' consigliere

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
1.1.11  arkpdx  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    4 weeks ago

As a Great man used to say

DITTO!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago
nightclub security business.

is that an euphemism for protection rackets?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2    4 weeks ago

What?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2    4 weeks ago

That's sure what it sounds like

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2  author  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

Pollster and former Clinton strategist Mark Penn called on ABC News to hire an outside law firm to look into internal communication between the network and the Harris campaign and to "what extent" they planned on "rigging the outcome of this debate."

"I actually think they should do a full internal investigation, hire an outside law firm. I don't know how much of this was planned in advance," Penn told the 'John Solomon Reports' podcast.


"I don't know what they told the Harris campaign," Penn said. "I think the day after, suspicion here is really quite high, and I think a review of all their internal texts and emails really should be done by an independent party to find out to what extent they were planning on, in effect, you know, fact-checking just one candidate and in effect, rigging the outcome of this debate. I think the situation demands nothing less than that."


Mark Penn: ABC News Should Do A Full Investigation Into Debate, "I Don't Know What They Told The Harris Campaign" | Video | RealClearPolitics

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 weeks ago

trump lost. he should gracefully exit the race and let his VP take the lead... /s

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @2.1    4 weeks ago

Why?  The media will go after Vance in the same vicious way.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

lol - there's going to be a massive blue wave

It was a joy to see Kamala kick his ass and kick him in the nuts too.  She thrashed him soundly and thoroughly!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

yeah, but the chances of vance stroking out in front of a camera are much less... /s

 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @2.1    4 weeks ago

'gracefully exit'

He hasn't admitted losing.  It was a three on one - poor baby - can't handle the truth being pointed out to him.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @2.1.3    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif I guess that's why he won't do another debate after Kamala thoroughly whooped his ass.  lol

The looks on his face when she was talking about his rallies - WOW - that opened the floodgates.

Her expressions and smile and perfect composure - as the former 'president' convicted felon and rapist and traitor threw a hissy fit for all to see - and she never ever lost her cool.  SIMPLY AWESOME.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.6  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

that maga cult leader is still pushing the debunked racist meme of immigrants eating everybody's pets...

it's like he's trying to lose now. what a fucking moron ...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

I read one commentator say that Trump cleaned his own clock and when he was done Kamala cleaned his clock and when she was done the two ABC moderators cleaned his clock.

Yet independents who watched say they still don't know anything about Harris.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

But I saw it on TV!

I saw some of jd's trumpsplanations but I got kind of lost after the first minute of pretzel twisting.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @2.1.6    4 weeks ago
the debunked racist meme of immigrants eating everybody's pets...

Still unproven but has little to do with Biden and Harris sidestepping congress to bring in Haitians and overwhelming America with them.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
2.1.10  Snuffy  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.7    4 weeks ago
Yet independents who watched say they still don't know anything about Harris.

So very true. She didn't answer questions and I doubt she moved the needle much on Independents/undecided. She was good at attacking & blaming Trump so she gets points for that. November is still gonna be close.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

Kamala's reaction was hilarious there too - the looks and the gestures and the - you could practically read her thoughts 'that crazy stupid mo fo just said what?'

and another time - I forget which - she said something and almost slipped when she was saying the former 'president' - I don't know what it was - but Stephen Colbert nailed it - in his monologue.  There was no question though absolutely whatsoever she won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Proved to the world she can do the job.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.9    4 weeks ago

'still unproven'

WOW

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.9    4 weeks ago

So, its Haitians overwhelming America now?  I thought it was just Springfield.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.11    4 weeks ago
Proved to the world she can do the job.

By winning a debate?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1    4 weeks ago
trump lost. he should gracefully exit the race and let his VP take the lead... /s

Oh, like Biden did, eh.

Oh, wait, Biden was forced out.........

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.17  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.11    4 weeks ago

I don;t get where winning a debate proves you can be President.

That is some very twisted (and I hesitate to use this word) 'logic'!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    4 weeks ago

That's why you said Joe Biden couldn't do the job.  

By allegedly losing the debate.

Now you want to investigate the debate that you just admitted Kamala won because she couldn't have won unless it was rigged.

Gee, I'm confused.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.19  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.11    4 weeks ago
Proved to the world she can do the job.

What job would that be? Not sure taunting and eye-rolling are part of the criteria for PotUS eligibility 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.17    4 weeks ago

Doesn't

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.18    4 weeks ago
That's why you said Joe Biden couldn't do the job.   By allegedly losing the debate.

After reading (!) his posts, it became clear Biden was proven to be everything we had been saying all along, and that is why Biden couldn't do the job. It never was because he 'lost the debate'.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.22  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.18    4 weeks ago
That's why you said Joe Biden couldn't do the job.   By allegedly losing the debate.

Nope. I said Biden enacted horrible radical policies. If Biden did nothing as president, I wouldn't have any problems with him.


Now you want to investigate the debate that you just admitted Kamala won because she couldn't have won unless it was rigged.

Gee, I'm confused.

I'm sorry to hear it.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.23  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.1.19    4 weeks ago

Yep, like she has done such a bangup job on our Southern Border the last 3+ years. She actively avoided any meaningful comments on that subject during the debate, at least the very few the moderators chose to ask her about anyway.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.24  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.22    4 weeks ago

I know what you said.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.1.25  arkpdx  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.22    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.9    4 weeks ago
Still unproven but has little to do with Biden and Harris sidestepping congress to bring in Haitians and overwhelming America with them.

Who was POTUS 5 years ago when the Haitians were given the legal right to enter the country?

It's not  Biden or Harris.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1.27  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.26    4 weeks ago
s POTUS 5 years ago when the Haitians were given the legal right to enter the country

It was illegal for Haitians to enter the country when Obama was President? 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.28  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.9    4 weeks ago

Still unproven but has little to do with Biden and Harris sidestepping congress to bring in Haitians and overwhelming America with them.

There is no proof. Same as there is no proof that there are states executing babies after they are born. It's all BS and you buy it? Really? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.29  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.27    4 weeks ago

These particular Haitians came to Mexico 5 years ago, stayed in México per Trump's Wait in Mexico program,

acquired the necessary apps to get their legal CB1s to legally enter the USA to seek work and answered the call from Springfield OH to fill at least 20,000 job openings, literally saving the town and County.

They are President Trump's guests and neither Biden or Harris side stepped Congress as Vic stated, nor are the Haitians  overwhelming America.

That's just hysterical partisan BS.

Thanks for the off topic deflection.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.1.30  arkpdx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.29    4 weeks ago
These particular Haitians came to Mexico 5 years ago, stayed in México per Trump's Wait in Mexico program,

Link please. Thank you. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.31  Split Personality  replied to  arkpdx @2.1.30    4 weeks ago

They came to Springfield OH in 2019 and 2020, no link necessary,

if you remember who was POTUS in 2019 and 2020 and what the rules were at the border.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1.32  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.31    4 weeks ago

Funny, that’s not what the mainstream media is reporting.  please support your claim that all the Haitians in Springfield arrive in 2019 and 2020.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.1.33  arkpdx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.31    4 weeks ago

Again proof. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.34  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.32    4 weeks ago
Funny, that’s not what the mainstream media is reporting.

That's equally funny since you don't trust the mainstream media and use sources like X (Twitter).

 please support your claim that all the Haitians in Springfield arrive in 2019 and 2020.

That's equally disingenuous because nowhere have I ever stated that "all the Haitians" arrived in Springfield in 2019 or 2020.

The first Haitians arrived to Springfield in 2018 because Springfield was begging for help.  Others were made to Wait in Mexico starting in December 2018.  All complied with Trump's rules and entered the country lawfully under TPS.

TPS for Haitians existed long before 2018

El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Nepal & Nicaragua: TPS valid as long as preliminary injunction ordered by district court in Ramos et al . v. Nielsen et al. , 336 F.Supp.3d 1075 (N.D. Cal. Oct. 3, 2018) remains in effect.” What Is Temporary Protected Status (TPS)? (immigrationhelp.org)

Most Haitians can still enter the US legally any time they complete the paperwork and pass the background checks.

Haiti December 14, 2023 Extension of Re-Registration Periods for Extensions of the Temporary Protected Status Designations of El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Nepal, Nicaragua, and Sudan

The Biden Administration extended the Haitian TPS 18 months in part due to requests from the city of Springfield and Clark County of Ohio.

Executive Office for Immigration Review | Temporary Protected Status (TPS) (justice.gov)

Haitians have been eligible for TPS since 2010. 

Individuals eligible for TPS under Haiti’s new designation must file an application for TPS with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services within the registration period that will begin upon publication of the   Federal Register   notice. This includes current beneficiaries under Haiti’s TPS designation, who will need to file a new application to register for TPS to ensure they do not lose TPS or experience a gap in coverage. Individuals filing for TPS may also request an Employment Authorization Document and travel authorization. All individuals applying for TPS undergo security and background checks as part of determining eligibility.

Former Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano initially designated Haiti for TPS in January 2010 based on extraordinary and temporary conditions within the country, specifically the effects of a 7.0-magnitude earthquake. In 2011, Haiti’s designation was extended, and the country was also redesignated for TPS at the same time. Haiti’s designation was subsequently extended again for 18 months in 2013 and 2015, and for an additional six months in 2017.

In January 2018, a   Federal Register   notice announced termination of Haiti’s TPS designation effective July 22, 2019. Four separate lawsuits challenged that termination. Due to court injunctions and other rulings, TPS for Haiti remains in effect pending case outcomes. Existing TPS Haiti beneficiaries retain their TPS and TPS-related documents through October 4, 2021, and DHS will continue to extend the benefit and documents if required to comply with court orders. These beneficiaries are also eligible to apply under the new designation of Haiti to receive TPS for the entire 18-month period that will be described in the soon-to-be published   Federal Register   notice.

Secretary Mayorkas Designates Haiti for Temporary Protected Status for 18 Months | Homeland Security (dhs.gov)

The local businesses seem to prefer the Haitians.

“We want more jobs in our community, and in order to fill those jobs, some jobs need to be people who are not originally from here,” Jaime McGregor, who owns the manufacturing factory McGregor Metals in Springfield, told PBS. McGregor told the outlet that about 10% of his workforce, about 30 employees, is Haitian. 

“I wish I had 30 more,” he said. “Our Haitian associates come to work every day. They don’t have a drug problem. They’ll stay at their machine. They’ll achieve their numbers. They are here to work. And so in general, that’s a stark difference from what we’re used to in our community.”

Why Haitian immigrants are moving to Springfield, Ohio (msn.com)

I hope this helps your "discovery".

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.35  Split Personality  replied to  arkpdx @2.1.33    4 weeks ago
Again proof. 

Again you can digest 2.1.34

or go back to the other article where you ignored a similar answer

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.1.36  arkpdx  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.31    3 weeks ago

Biden was president in. 2020. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.37  Split Personality  replied to  arkpdx @2.1.36    3 weeks ago
Biden was president in. 2020. 

Totally immaterial at this point but Trump was inaugurated on 01/20/17 and served as President until

01/20/2021. 

Neither Biden, Harris, Trump or Pence invited these particular workers to Springfield.

No one dumped them by the thousands in Ohio.

They came here legally using the programs made available to them by the Immigration Act of 1990 under George Bush the elder.

Springfield OH and Clark County and neighboring cities like Dayton OH advertised for workers and they came.

The only thing worse than spreading fear and lies about Haitians eating cats and dogs is that JD Vance and Donald trump are not only spreading that lie, but they are purposely lying about the Haitians being  "dumped' in Springfield by Biden & Harris.  

The level of deliberate misinformation from those two is amazing.  Vance the newish Senator could be excused for lack of experience in how shit works in D.C. but Trump as the former POTUS has no excuse IMHO.

I guess we are done beating this dead horse.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.38  TᵢG  replied to  arkpdx @2.1.36    3 weeks ago
Biden was president in. 2020. 

One of the most basic political facts and somehow you get it wrong while attempting to engage in partisan finger-pointing.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 weeks ago

actually think they should do a full internal investigation, hire an outside law firm. I don't know how much of this was planned in advanc

The thing is abc doesn’t care. They helped their team and don’t think it’s their job to be objective.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.2    4 weeks ago

It is much easier to call it a "conspiracy theory."

Then again, if there really is one of their own giving out info ...

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.2    4 weeks ago

If there is another debate, let Fox moderate it with the same rules as last week as far as the muted mike. Harris would probably refuse a debate put on by Fox because she would lose her home court advantage media wise like she had with the last one.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2.2    4 weeks ago
let Fox moderate it with the same rules as last week as far as the muted mike.

It didn't matter, Trump kept talking and kept getting additional time to rebut the rebuttals.

He ended up with 5 more minutes than Harris and rarely answered the questions.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.3    4 weeks ago

Exactly - they told the former 'president' at least one time that I caught, I admit, I didn't watch the entire debate, but most of it, and when they told him he had a minute to rebut something Kamala said, it was waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more than a minute.  They just let him ramble and rant and lie and attack.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.5  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.4    4 weeks ago

Fact is they both lied through their teeth.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.6  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2.5    4 weeks ago

That is a matter of opinion.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.7  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.6    4 weeks ago

That it is. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.8  Split Personality  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2.7    4 weeks ago

The only thing anyone will remember is the whopper that Haitians ( that came into the country during his Administration starting in 2018) were eating American cats and dogs.

More than one Trump handler in the Convention Center wings probably started looking for another job.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.9  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.8    4 weeks ago

We do not have issues with Hiatians down here on my neck of the Southwestern border, but I'll tell you what we will remember and that is her and Joe Biden throwing the legal residents here on the border under the bus on illegal immigration. The fact that she refused to acknowledge the problems she and Biden created, but then again the pet biased ABC moderators in that debate pretty much refused to direct any questions to her on that.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 weeks ago

Really, someone seriously needs to look into that!  Investigate the debate.  The only way he could have lost.  It was rigged.  jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.3    4 weeks ago
The only way he could have lost.  It was rigged.

Really?

If you say so.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.4  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    4 weeks ago
Clinton strategist

CDS... 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3  Sean Treacy    4 weeks ago

The whistleblower claim is almost certainly fake news, but given the history of media and the dnc colluding to rig debates, Ita impossible to rule out.

Honestly, there’s no way Harris could have performed that poorly if she had the questions in advance. She arguably didn’t actually answer a single question asked of her.  I’m sure her handlers would have scripted at least one responsive answer if they knew the questions. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    4 weeks ago
The whistleblower claim is almost certainly fake news, but given the history of media and the dnc colluding to rig debates, Ita impossible to rule out.

That is exactly the way I feel about it as well.


Honestly, there’s no way Harris could have performed that poorly if she had the questions in advance. She arguably didn’t actually answer a single question asked of her.  I’m sure her handlers would have scripted at least one responsive answer if they knew the questions.

She displayed a lot of self-confidence that night.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4  Snuffy    4 weeks ago
Donald Trump, campaigning in Arizona, called for the elimination of taxes on overtime.

Meh, another campaign promise that has no hope of actually being passed by Congress and thereby set into law. I do wonder if the Harris campaign will try to talk about the same thing like they did on eliminating taxes on tips. 

IMO until they get a handle on spending they should not be talking about tax cuts. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5  author  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

A night in Arizona:

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 weeks ago

too bad he thought he was in pennsylvania, while he doubled down on immigrants eating peoples pets...

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @5.1    4 weeks ago

Pennsylvania...Arizona....sounding it out in my mind

they're not even close in sounding alike and they are miles apart both alphabetically and geographically

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @5.1    4 weeks ago

'the former 'president' absolutely unloads'

he's always unloading piles of shit every time he opens his rectum of a mouth

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.2  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 weeks ago

The PD&D+delusion 'campaign' tour continues.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.3  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 weeks ago

What a doddering old fool.  Where does he discuss policy during this 'campaign' stop?  Nothing but lie after lie after lie after lie after lie after lie

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.4  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 weeks ago

What a hateful disgusting old 'man' he is.  I don't see him talking about policy here.  Let me know if I'm missing anything.  It's been all about him, as usual.  

What a waste of a human being.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @5.4    4 weeks ago

He didn't answer any direct questions on Tuesday night...but then again VP Harris didn't always answer questions either. But she sure made him look like a doddering old fool

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.4.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.4.1    4 weeks ago

There are much more serious issues right now than if the candidates drill down on their "policies". If policies are all that matter we could elect Charlie Manson president as long as he promised policies conservatives like. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.4.3  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.4.1    4 weeks ago

I watched most of the 'campaign' event that vic posted above where the former felon unloads - lol - and no where did he talk policy, no where.  He was just 'unloading' like he always does.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.4.4  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.4.2    4 weeks ago
There are much more serious issues right now than if the candidates drill down on their "policies".

Policies make or break a Presidency.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
6  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

 "She arguably didn’t actually answer a single question asked of her." 

And that is a very big problem for her. The undecideds and independents still are waiting to hear what she believes in and what she intends to do as president. She can't continue to hide from the voters and pretend she is a moderate.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Greg Jones @6    4 weeks ago
nd that is a very big problem for her

 I don' think it is.  They don't care.They cheer when moderators cheat for her and say "who cares, stop complaining."  They have no integrity and only care about the talking point that Harris won, by means fair or foul.  CNN literally gave HRC debate questions prior to a debate and they didn't care. 

They cheer when she refuses to do interviews. They call her positions from when she was campaigning for THIS term of office "ancient history" as if no one could possibly be expected to maintain a position for an entire term of office.  No matter what she says or does, she'll have their vote. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7  Nerm_L    4 weeks ago

David Muir and Lindsey Davis did nothing to force Donald Trump to wear an asshat and act like a buffoon.  You'd think Donald Trump was a 4 star general the way he behaved at the debate.  Anonymous whistleblowers won't change a damn thing about Donald Trump blowing the debate.  Donald Trump proved he has the gravitas of a chimpanzee picking its ass and flinging monkey shit.  Trying to make Donald Trump look good is a foolish waste of time.  The man is an idiot and, obviously, prefers being thought of as an idiot.  So, let him have what he wants.  

And even after proving himself to be a complete and total idiot, Donald Trump is still  the best choice.  Even giving Kamala Harris any edge possible won't magically transform her into a substantive candidate.  Harris completely failed that test during the 2020 primaries.  Rigging the debate could never turn Kamala Harris into something she is not.  That's why the election is still close.  

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Nerm_L @7    4 weeks ago

“And even after proving himself to be a complete and total idiot, Donald Trump is still  the best choice.”

In your incredibly inconceivable world. How do so many attempt to reconcile the ‘complete and total idiot’ as the ‘best choice’ ? 

Has your life devolved under Democrat leadership to the point where you are willing to accept what another trump term promises? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1    4 weeks ago

yeah, maybe we need a Democrat again because we just don't have enough immigrants we can't afford to support.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.2  afrayedknot  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.1    4 weeks ago

“…we just don't have enough immigrants we can't afford to support.”

trump promises mass deportation of tens of millions, due process never addressed. The cost to our economy, also never addressed, would be devastating. The cost to our heritage, also never addressed, would be catastrophic.

Illegal immigration is an extremely serious and complex issue that will require serious conversation to properly address the myriad problems after decades of partisan polemics…trump is not the serious, credible nor conciliatory leader who can address anything past his own self serving agenda. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.2    4 weeks ago
The cost to our heritage, also never addressed, would be catastrophic.

What?!?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.4  Nerm_L  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1    4 weeks ago
In your incredibly inconceivable world. How do so many attempt to reconcile the ‘complete and total idiot’ as the ‘best choice’ ? Has your life devolved under Democrat leadership to the point where you are willing to accept what another trump term promises? 

Donald Trump has a very Nerdish type personality.  Seems rather obvious that Trump has no clue about empathy, emotional intelligence, or social graces; a common characteristic attributed to nerds.  But Trump does approach problems as an engineer.  Trump has the talent and skills to recognize and focus attention on fundamental problems influencing complex issues.  Trump has demonstrated that he knows how to get things done.

Kamala Harris, on the other hand, exhibits a very cliquish type of personality; a California cool snobbery.  Harris is master of put-downs, insults, and throwing shade.  Harris engages in the kind of bullying that motivates school shootings.  Kamala Harris is all snob and no substance.  Harris hasn't demonstrated any more empathy or emotional intelligence than Trump.  That shouldn't be surprising since prosecutors must be cold hearted autocrats to do their jobs. 

It really is easier to have faith that Donald Trump will address problems and will get things done.  You know, Steve Jobs was a similar type of asshole as Donald Trump.  So is Bill Gates.  But it's not necessary to like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates to recognize they addressed real problems, produced superior solutions, and got things done.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.2    4 weeks ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.3    4 weeks ago

Imaginary bull 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.9  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.1    4 weeks ago
we just don't have enough immigrants we can't afford to support.

This guy thinks he’s supporting immigrants. jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

The Effects of Immigration on the United States’ Economy

The available evidence suggests that immigration leads to more innovation, a better educated workforce, greater occupational specialization, better matching of skills with jobs, and higher overall economic productivity.

Research Shows Immigrants Benefit U.S. Taxpayers

The Congressional Budget Office concluded that the increased labor supply fueled by immigration produces enormous fiscal benefits for U.S. taxpayers.

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the United States

Do immigrants consume more in government services than they pay in taxes? In other words, do immigrants impose a burden on taxpayers? In our recent paper, “ The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the United States ,” we investigate this question and find that immigrants pay more in taxes than they consume in benefits, on average.
 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
7.1.10  George  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.9    4 weeks ago

Lets start with the most basic question, do you know the difference between legal immigrant and illegal immigrants? 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
7.1.11  evilone  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.9    4 weeks ago

Nice list. The problem is not letting these people work while they are being processed. They work, they support themselves and local economies and pay taxes. Rather they get to be political pawns as they turn to other measures to live.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.9    4 weeks ago
Office concluded that the increased labor supply fueled by immigration produces enormous fiscal benefits for U.S. taxpayers.

And in the real world, cities are cutting services to residents to support illegal immigrants. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.13  afrayedknot  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.5    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.14  Tacos!  replied to  George @7.1.10    4 weeks ago
Lets start with the most basic question, do you know the difference between legal immigrant and illegal immigrants? 

How about you start with reading what was written. Do you see the word “illegal” in the post I replied to? It’s 7.1.1.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.4    4 weeks ago
Trump does approach problems as an engineer.  Trump has the talent and skills to recognize and focus attention on fundamental problems influencing complex issues.  Trump has demonstrated that he knows how to get things done.

And how many bankrupt businesses has he left in his wake?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.16  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.12    4 weeks ago
And in the real world, cities are cutting services to residents to support illegal immigrants. 

“In the real world” of your imagination?

This is the kind of madness that props up a guy like Trump. I supply actual data from good sources, but since they don’t conform to your “real” worldview where strangers are preying on you, it must be fake news or something.

As long as people keep rejecting documented, verifiable facts, there may be no hope for us.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.17  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.15    4 weeks ago
And how many bankrupt businesses has he left in his wake?

So, you want perfection?  The pursuit of perfection is how politicians kick the can and never accomplish anything.  

Trump is on the debate stage because he overcame failures.  Harris is on the debate stage because someone else failed and was punished.  So, which one would you rather gamble on running the country?  Someone who overcomes failure or someone who personally benefits from the failure of others?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.18  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.16    4 weeks ago

You need documentation cities claiming that migrants are costing  them money and necessitating budget cuts?  Really? 

This took one second:

The modified budget reflects increased costs and spending since last winter’s projections, which caused a $7 billion deficit — forcing more cuts. 

Adams has pinned much of the city’s financial woes on the asylum seeker crisis, as officials say more than 143,000 migrants have come to New York City over the last year and a half — many of them needing public assistance.

The city is still taking care of more than 60,000 asylum seekers in   already overtaxed   shelters and facilities across the city, as it is required to provide shelter to anyone under its “right to shelter” mandate. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.19  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.9    4 weeks ago
This guy thinks he’s supporting immigrants

Laugh all you want, but no one is paying for MY shelter, food and medical expenses like we are for aliens.

I would rather that money be spent on needy citizens.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.20  Sean Treacy  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.18    4 weeks ago

Here's another:

Denver will cut hours at recreation centers, end in-person vehicle registration renewals and eliminate spring flower beds to save $5 million this year, a response to the migrant crisis that is expected to cost the city $180 million. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.20    4 weeks ago

it is simply undeniable and wrong that tax dollars are spent this way.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.22  afrayedknot  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.16    4 weeks ago

“As long as people keep rejecting documented, verifiable facts, there may be no hope for us.”

The trump legacy.

Long after his inevitable self immolation, historians will debate how one so incompetent was able to tap into the deepest, darkest parts of our consciousness for his gain. 

Either we learn from it or we are complicit in burning it all down. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
7.1.23  George  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.21    4 weeks ago

But we want to conflate legal immigrants with the feral cats that most are talking about to make some bullshit point.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.24  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.17    4 weeks ago

What pray tell did trmp accomplish in his 4 years?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.25  Nerm_L  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.16    4 weeks ago
This is the kind of madness that props up a guy like Trump. I supply actual data from good sources, but since they don’t conform to your “real” worldview where strangers are preying on you, it must be fake news or something. As long as people keep rejecting documented, verifiable facts, there may be no hope for us.

Slaves were immigrants.  And slavery greatly benefited the economy.  Slaves took jobs and displaced workers, too.  Those are also verifiable facts.

Slavery was good for employers.  Slavery was good for consumers.  Slavery was good for political government and the political parties (Democrats in particular).  But the resounding economic success of slavery was never intended to benefit slaves.

The economic facts being tossed around concerning immigration praises the benefits to employers, consumers, and political government.  Democrats are using immigrants to bolster their economic arguments the same way Democrats used slaves.  Those really are verifiable comparisons and facts, too.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.26  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.22    4 weeks ago
As long as people keep rejecting documented, verifiable facts, there may be no hope for 

Or believing nonsense like Russian collusion and mythical pee tapes.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.27  afrayedknot  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.26    4 weeks ago

The desperation is palpable.

(And that was not my quote…surely you of all people would respect that) 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
7.1.28  George  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.24    4 weeks ago

Did he not invest money in and fast track a vaccine and then remove barriers to market they may have saved thousands of lives? Did he not issue a EO to make thousands of ventilators that may have saved thousands of people?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.29  Tacos!  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.18    4 weeks ago

Have you heard the one about the apples and the oranges?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.30  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.19    4 weeks ago

When you don’t care about facts.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.31  Tacos!  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.25    4 weeks ago
Slaves were immigrants.

No, they were prisoners. Victims. You think they were immigrants?? WTF!

Slavery was good for employers.  Slavery was good for consumers.

Please don’t say slavery was “good” for anyone. There’s nothing good about it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.32  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.30    4 weeks ago

Facts?

It is a fact we are supporting immigrants.

You may choose to ignore facts all you wish, but I won't 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.33  Nerm_L  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.24    4 weeks ago
What pray tell did trmp accomplish in his 4 years?

Trump convinced Republicans to impose a tax increase on more affluent Americans by limiting SALT deductions.  Arguing that the tax increase was inconsequential ignores that it represents a tectonic shift within the Republican Party.

Trump also convinced Republicans to lower taxes on business without including tax cuts on income (real or unrealized).  Those tax cuts really did spur repatriation of corporate profits held offshore and investment in domestic business. 

Trump also used tariffs to tax imports and punish domestic businesses threatening to move out of the country.  The tariffs really did establish incentives for American businesses to create jobs in the country.

Trump nominated judges and SCOTUS justices that renewed the original intent of state's rights in the Constitution.  Contrary to Democratic misinformation, SCOTUS did not criminalize abortion.  The issue of abortion is now subject to the democratic will of the people and no longer the purview of autocratic, undemocratic decree.

Trump engaged in diplomacy with adversaries of the United States.  As a result, North Korea stopped firing missiles, Russia engaged in cooperation in northern Iraq, and China was put on notice.  Trump formally recognized the government of Taiwan, Jerusalem as capital of Israel, and NATO has a drain on the United States.

Trump's hard line stance on immigration really did throttle irregular immigration.  Barriers really do work otherwise there wouldn't be fences around the White House or Biden's beach house.

There are a lot of other things Trump accomplished but listing more would just be a waste of time.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.34  Texan1211  replied to  George @7.1.23    4 weeks ago
But we want to conflate legal immigrants with the feral cats that most are talking about to make some bullshit 

I don't give a damn if they are legal or not, we shouldn't be paying one thin dime for them.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.1.35  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.32    4 weeks ago
It is a fact we are supporting immigrants.

In the aggregate, it is not a fact. I supplied you with proof, but you choose to ignore it.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.36  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.35    4 weeks ago
In the aggregate, it is not a fact. I supplied you with proof, but you choose to ignore it.

this is false. 

I didnt ignore it.

My point is and always will be this.

Immigrants should be fully self supporting, period. Not one thin dime until we take care of our own first.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.37  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.16    4 weeks ago
And in the real world, cities are cutting services to residents to support illegal immigrants. 
“In the real world” of your imagination?

No, in the very real world of easily looked up facts.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.38  Trout Giggles  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.33    4 weeks ago

none of those things benefited me or were things I wanted done

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.39  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.15    4 weeks ago

'has demonstrated he knows how to get things done'

What exactly????????????????

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.40  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.31    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.41  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.33    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_25_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.42  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.18    4 weeks ago

Better call Mayor Adams and denounce him as a liar.

Maybe the mayors of Denver, Chicago, too!

Tacos said we aren't paying anything for them!

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.43  afrayedknot  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.25    4 weeks ago

“Slaves were immigrants.”

Ignorant does not begin to describe this take.

’Slaves’ (read human beings), were shackled, chained and removed from their homes, their families and their culture…only to be mistreated and tortured and abused as a commodity. 

Our friend Kavika may have a more compelling take as to how those in power treated those with no voice.

Our history is rife with lies, broken promises, and self serving deception. Let us learn from our broken past and strive to be better. For all of us…regardless of color, gender, history, religion or anything else that some choose to believe is a point of division in their privilege  

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
7.1.44  arkpdx  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.17    4 weeks ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.45  Tessylo  replied to  arkpdx @7.1.44    4 weeks ago

That's absolutely disgusting.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.46  Nerm_L  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.43    4 weeks ago
Ignorant does not begin to describe this take.

’Slaves’ (read human beings), were shackled, chained and removed from their homes, their families and their culture…only to be mistreated and tortured and abused as a commodity. 

Our friend Kavika may have a more compelling take as to how those in power treated those with no voice. Our history is rife with lies, broken promises, and self serving deception. Let us learn from our broken past and strive to be better. For all of us…regardless of color, gender, history, religion or anything else that some choose to believe is a point of division in their privilege  

Well add this one to the list of lies.  Over a quarter of British colonists were prisoners and debtors involuntarily transported to the American colonies.  They weren't immigrants by your criteria.

Barack Obama created the DACA program, using an undemocratic EO, for children who were involuntarily brought to the United States by illegal immigrants.  Some of those covered by DACA are even indigenous people.  Are they immigrants?  

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1.47  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.32    4 weeks ago
It is a fact we are supporting immigrants.

" Immigration strengthens the U.S. economy and contributes to greater prosperity for all Americans . Immigrants help create jobs, raise wages, reduce inflation, and increase productivity and innovation . Immigrants boost virtually every sector of the econom y , and they play particularly important roles in critical sectors like healthcare, food production and agriculture, construction, and emerging fields like semiconductors"

Immigration Benefits All Americans and Strengthens the Economy - Fwd.us

[ ] I believe the loudest voices against immigrants are likely being supported by immigrants, even the undocumented immigrants that pay billions into our social security fund that millions of bitter racist rightwing conservatives rely on every day to keep them alive and able to afford their crap beer and cigarettes.

" Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits "

"According to New American Economy, undocumented immigrants contributed $13 billion into the Social Security funds in 2016 and $3 billion to Medicare ."

Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.48  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.47    4 weeks ago

Only progressives can ignore cities cutting services because migrants are costing so much and still claim they are a net monetary  positive. Just willful blindness. 

Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers a NET of 150 billion dollars a year. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1.49  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.48    4 weeks ago

"The Federation for American Immigration Reform is a nonprofit, anti-immigration organization in the United States. "

There is no link to the actual study that this anti-immigration group supposedly did in the link you provide. I don't refute that there is money paid to support immigrants including the millions who were brought here as children which no doubt is included in this number but not even their article claims it's a "NET" cost because that would be a hilariously flawed reading of their article and something only a complete moron would conclude. None of the article includes the actual benefits to the economy that immigrants provide.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.50  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.49    4 weeks ago

Lol. Imagine complaining about biased sources after what you posted...

v en their article claims it's a "NET" cost because that would be a hilariously flawed reading of their article and something only a complete moron would conclude

  • At the start of 2023, th e net cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was at least $150.7 billion. 

Lol.  All the insults in the world can't cover for you.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.51  Texan1211  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.47    4 weeks ago

if what you claim is all true, what city anywhere would ever have to cut any services for taxpayers?

If they cost NOTHING, why would New York be begging for federal funds?

And before you say one word about the source, it is CNN, and if that is 'too progressive' of a site you can always Google it yourself.

NY says it needs $3 billion from federal government in coming years to respond to thousands of asylum seekers | CNN

I am fully aware that I may not be current with the 'new' math, but pretty sure if it was free, NY wouldn't be asking.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
7.1.52  Gazoo  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.51    4 weeks ago

Yeah, what an idiotic claim. If that claim were true cities would be begging tor illegals.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.53  Texan1211  replied to  Gazoo @7.1.52    4 weeks ago
cities would be begging tor illegals.

.................and not for federal funds.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
7.1.54  Sean Treacy  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.51    4 weeks ago
aim is all true, what city anywhere would ever have to cut any services for taxpayers

The pro illegal lobby is simply divorced from reality.  The real world is the best possible proof. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.1.56  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.46    4 weeks ago
Well add this one to the list of lies. 

Everything you quoted was and is true.

Over a quarter of British colonists were prisoners and debtors involuntarily transported to the American colonies.  They weren't immigrants by your criteria.

According to the Crown they were "just colonists" not Englishman with the same rights as other Englishmen or loyal Tories.  All colonists were considered immigrants by the Native American Indian Nations.

Barack Obama created the DACA program, using an undemocratic EO, for children who were involuntarily brought to the United States by illegal immigrants.  

There is no such thing as an undemocratic EO.  EO's are either found Constitutional or they aren't.

Some of those covered by DACA are even indigenous people.  Are they immigrants?  

If they aren't American citizens or members of recognized Northa American tribes they are of course, immigrants.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
7.1.57  arkpdx  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.56    4 weeks ago
There is no such thing as an undemocratic EO. EO's are either found Constitutional or they aren't.

SCOTUS has determined that the EO was illegal and that DACA could no longer continue. Unfortunately Biden does not obey things he does not like. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.1.58  Split Personality  replied to  arkpdx @7.1.57    4 weeks ago
SCOTUS has determined that the EO was illegal and that DACA could no longer continue.

BS and quite the opposite of reality.

Despite more than a decade of political and legal attacks, nearly 600,000 people are still receiving the benefits of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, renewing their DACA designations in two-year increments.

The program’s future, however, remains clouded.

The Obama administration established DACA in   2012 as a “temporary stopgap measure”   to allow Dreamers — immigrants brought to this country without authorization before they turned 16 — to work, travel and get higher education legally. It was never meant to be a path to citizenship or a permanent fix.

The program initially protected more than 800,000 immigrants brought to the U.S. prior to June 15, 2007. That number has dwindled as many have either failed to renew their applications or adjusted their status in other ways, such as by marrying a U.S. citizen.   Some have voluntarily left the country   in favor of places that can grant them permanent citizenship.

Here’s a breakdown of where things stand, what the program currently offers, and what might happen in the future.

The Supreme Court  appeared to rescue DACA  in 2020, ruling that the Trump administration had  violated federal procedural rules  when it ordered the program terminated in 2017. But a year later, U.S. District Judge Andrew S. Hanen in Houston   ruled against the program,   declaring that the   Department of Homeland Security memorandum   that created DACA had exceeded its authority and violated federal procedural rules.

Hanen allowed the government to continue the program for current enrollees, but not to sign up any new ones. That remains the status quo.

What's the current status of DACA? Here's what you need to know - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

Facts, not hearsay or opinions.

Unfortunately Biden does not obey things he does not like. 

Deflection, no one mentioned Biden.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
7.1.59  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.1.50    3 weeks ago

First, the previous link I was replying to and talking about did not have the new link you provided and it did not use the term "net" anywhere in the article as I said. Second, the new link you provided to the supposedly FAIR groups study was egregiously poor in its calculation and is frankly nothing but a partisan group doing simple addition to try and describe a very complex issue. No where do they factor in what my link confirms, that:

" Immigration helps grow and strengthen the U.S. economy. In the simplest terms, more people spending money on goods and services increases the U.S.' gross domestic product (GDP), one of the most important measures of our economy's health. In turn, the increased demand for goods and services can spur the creation of new businesses and more jobs. One study found that immigrants account for  17% of U.S. GDP , amounting to $3.3 trillion."

It does not show how much that even undocumented immigrants do to keep down inflation. How much do you think your produce would cost if every farm was paying American citizens to pick their lettuce? How many Americans are preparing their kids to be produce pickers on a seasonal basis?

" Simply put, the U.S.  cannot grow its workforce  without increasing immigration. Immigrants made up  18.1% of the overall labor force  in 2022, a sizable share that has increased in recent years and continues to increase. Because immigrants are  more likely to be working age , they help fill gaps in the workforce, particularly in certain critical industries."

The uproar over the LEGAL Haitian immigrants that Trump and his vile deplorable base are screaming and lying about proves they are nothing but racists and that this isn't just about undocumented immigrants costing the government supposedly $150 billion (which is widely disputed, and the clearly biased FAIR group has yet to actually show the method of their supposed study). Even if what they say is true, the FACT is that overall immigration is a HUGE boon to our nation, but of course rancid pig fucker racists will never accept such facts because they hate any outsiders, especially if they're black or brown. You don't see them demanding a wall built in the north between the US and Canada do you? Up to 5.5 million or about 48% of the undocumented immigrants come from Visa overstays not crossing the border illegally and while overstaying a Visa is wrong, it's not actually a crime.

" According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal  visa , accounting for between 33 and 48% of the total unauthorized migrant population. [ 99 ]  Visa overstays tend to be somewhat more educated and better off financially than those who entered the country illegally. [ 106 ]   In most instances, overstaying a visa is a  civil  "wrong" and not necessarily a  crime , though the person is still subject to deportation for unlawful presence"

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

So immigrants add up to $3.3 TRILLION to our GDP but at worst undocumented immigrants may be costing us $150 billion which is a small drop in the bucket when compared to the benefits of immigration to our country. The only real reason Trump and rightwing conservatives are opposed to immigrants and refuse to reform our immigration process to allow more immigrants to legally come into our country is because they're racists, it's that simple, so trying to hide behind study's and numbers won't cut it anymore, not to people with more than half a brain. Sure, it's easy to fool the uneducated bigots that Trump loves, but the rest of us can see what a load of crap he's selling, and I find it sad that so many embrace his shitty rhetoric.

"We won the poorly educated vote. I love the poorly educated" - Donald J Trump

Yes, yes he does.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.2  Tacos!  replied to  Nerm_L @7    4 weeks ago
That's why the election is still close.

The election is close because too many Americans feel better about themselves when they think other groups of people are the cause of their problems - e.g., LGBT people are preying on our children, immigrants are taking our jobs, etc. Trump validates their prejudice with his lies. They eagerly accept these lies even though he has been proven repeatedly to be the most prolific liar in our political history. Trump makes it ok for his supporters to hate and fear other people.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.2.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Tacos! @7.2    4 weeks ago
LGBT people are preying on our children

They are.  Why else would LGBTQ+++ issues be causing angst in parents of school children?  LGBTQ+++ books cannot be banned from school libraries if they aren't preying on our children.  How many sexually active six year olds are there in the country?  And why isn't that a fucking problem?

immigrants are taking our jobs

They are.  Why else would migrants risk irregular (and thus illegal) immigration?  It doesn't seem plausible that migrants are illegally entering the country for reasons other than jobs.

They eagerly accept these lies even though he has been proven repeatedly to be the most prolific liar in our political history.

'They' is a broad brush that paints both the left and right with political misinformation and outright lies.  In case no one noticed, Trump ain't the only fearmonger on the debate stage.  Kamala Harris contributed her share of hate and fear to the political history.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
7.2.2  Tacos!  replied to  Nerm_L @7.2.1    4 weeks ago
They are.

What a sad tragedy that you think so.

Why else would LGBTQ+++ issues be causing angst in parents of school children?

Generations of prejudice.

They are.  Why else would migrants risk irregular (and thus illegal) immigration? 

Try a little logic for a moment. If Americans - who are already here - took the jobs first, they wouldn’t be available for immigrants, legal or otherwise.

'They' is a broad brush that paints both the left and right with political misinformation and outright lies.

You happily insist that LGBT people are preying on children, and immigrants are taking our jobs, but now you object to painting with a broad brush? Oy!

In any event, the only “they” I referenced was Trump supporters. I presented no misinformation or lies, either directly or indirectly. In fact, your own prejudice validates the very point I made about Trump.

Kamala Harris contributed her share of hate and fear to the political history.

Your whataboutism notwithstanding, Harris - like any normal, sane politician - wants people to fear what her political opponent will do. Trump wants people to hate and fear whole classes of regular people. It’s entirely different.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @7.2.2    4 weeks ago

'Try a little logic'

jrSmiley_40_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.2.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tacos! @7.2    4 weeks ago

Here is what makes it close:

A young woman was interviewed yesterday about inflation and the cost of food. At the end the interviewer asked who she was voting for.

She said: "Who cares about the price of food, I have a great job, and I'll pay more as long as I don't have to listen to Trump."

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.3  Split Personality  replied to  Nerm_L @7    4 weeks ago
David Muir and Lindsey Davis did nothing to force Donald Trump to wear an asshat and act like a buffoon.  You'd think Donald Trump was a 4 star general the way he behaved at the debate.  Anonymous whistleblowers won't change a damn thing about Donald Trump blowing the debate.  Donald Trump proved he has the gravitas of a chimpanzee picking its ass and flinging monkey shit.  Trying to make Donald Trump look good is a foolish waste of time.  The man is an idiot and, obviously, prefers being thought of as an idiot.  So, let him have what he wants. 

I could vote up that part of your comment.

CNN posted Donalds answer to the same questions in  next to the Harris debate.

He looked absolutely electable in 2016, this week not at all. It's been a rough 9 years.

And even after proving himself to be a complete and total idiot, Donald Trump is still  the best choice. 

And you lost my vote with the next passage, sorry.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8  Tacos!    4 weeks ago
The affidavit states how the Harris campaign was given sample question which were essentially the same questions that were given during the debate

Yeah, until I see proof, this is bullshit. Trump has already been saying this shit out loud, and it smacks of the kind of garbage he always says when things don’t go his way. Everything he doesn’t win was “rigged.”

But just for the sake of argument, let’s assume it was true. This wasn’t a trivia contest where they were asking candidates to name something obscure like the Undersecretary of Senegal’s Ministry of the Interior (i made that up). They asked very general questions on topics we know are familiar to both candidates. Abortion, immigration, Ukraine, health care, and so on. Both candidates talk publicly on a daily basis about everything that came up during the debate. It’s hard to imagine how getting the questions in advance could have helped.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.1  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @8    4 weeks ago

The questions they asked were pretty obvious to predict. Harris was prepared for all the obvious topics. Trump thought he could bullshit!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.2  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @8    4 weeks ago

Remember this is the same guy that called in glowing reviews about himself to the news and magazines way back when, so we know he's capable of stooping to lower and lower depths.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
9  Sean Treacy    4 weeks ago

Another good point on why it's very unlikely the questions were actually leaked.  As I said earlier, God help Harris if that's the best she can do knowing the questions in advance.  Besides that now we know the moderators had made a premeditated decision to intervene on Harris' behalf. Moreover, simply selecting topics and what questions to ask make any sort of overt collusion unnecessary. 

What did ABC's "moderators" ask about? January 6, the 2020 election challenges, Kamala Harris' identity, tariffs, and abortion. They never asked about the legitimacy of Harris' nomination, but gave Harris plenty of openings for her "disqualification" strategy against Trump. 
Who needs to leak the questions when you've cooked them first -- and then decide to fact-check only one side of the debate? Update : I mentioned this to Duane in tonight's   Week in Review , but I'll add this to my point about cooking the questions. In the film   Quiz Show , about the Charles Van Doren/'21' scandal in the late 1950s, Rob Morrow and Martin Scorcese have a scene in which Scorcese as an NBC exec explains to the investigator that the shows didn't need to give contestants the answers in advance to rig the contests. They could do it by cooking the questions:

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
9.1  MrFrost  replied to  Sean Treacy @9    4 weeks ago
knowing the questions in advance

Nothing but another excuse as to why trump got his ass kicked. Justify it how you will but trump got his ass kicked. Just accept it and move on. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
9.2  MrFrost  replied to  Sean Treacy @9    4 weeks ago
the questions in advance. 

Joe Biden won the debate because Trump had the questions in advance.... 

Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
10  arkpdx    4 weeks ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
10.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  arkpdx @10    4 weeks ago
Don't forget that she started up to that stage by giving a BJ to Willie Brown.

Do you have any documented evidence of this claim? We know that one candidate has been accused of sexually assaulting over two dozen women, is an accused rapist, we all heard him admit on tape that he grabs women he finds attractive "by the pussy", has cheated on all three of his wives, paid hundreds of thousands to porn stars to keep his infidelity from being known during a political campaign, is a known prolific liar, has run half a dozen businesses into bankruptcy, had his charity fined for millions and shut down, been found guilty of 34 felonies, said of a known convicted child molester " I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” "He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life”.

But instead of talking about any of that, [ deleted because of context ] [ ] You ignore her MANY accomplishments and attempt to slut shame her because you hate other Americans who happen to be liberals, progressives and Democrats, it's as simple as that. I guess some can't admit to the actual facts about their own candidate because it would be extremely inconvenient to do so [ deleted ]

[ ] Posts Mislead About Harris' Romance with Willie Brown - FactCheck.org

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @10.1    4 weeks ago

It's deplorable as well as anyone who votes up that ignorant shit

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @10.1    4 weeks ago

.... likely constitutes the vast majority of his base......

fucking A

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
10.1.3  arkpdx  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @10.1    4 weeks ago
you hate other Americans who happen to be liberals, progressives and Democrats, you hate other Americans who happen to be liberals, progressives and Democrats,

No I don't. I just hate those that hate this country.

[deleted]

[] It is just like you hating to other true Americans who happen to be conservatives, patriots and Republicans. (Or anyone else that does not adhere to your ideology)

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
10.2  MrFrost  replied to  arkpdx @10    4 weeks ago

removed for context SP

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
11  MrFrost    4 weeks ago

Ya know what they call killing babies after they are born? 

A school shooting. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12  TᵢG    4 weeks ago
Harris won the debate, yet didn't get much if any bump. The media must be angry, and the Harris campaign wants another debate.

The Harris campaign suggested another debate immediately after the first.   Well before any polls were available.

Many people say they still don't know what she stands for.

It should be obvious by now what she stands for.   How many times must she make the point that she is for opening opportunities in the middle and lower classes in terms of starting businesses, getting proper education, home ownership, consumer protection, etc.?   That is the fundamental principle of her candidacy and thus one should expect her policies as PotUS to reflect this principle.

Agreement or disagreement with these future policies is another matter.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @12    4 weeks ago
It should be obvious by now what she stands for. 

Kind of depend on what day it is, and what audience she has.

An 'opportunity economy'. Whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

On immigration and securing the border, no need for words, her record is clear. She has now embraced building the wall, and claims to be tough on immigration.

She has flipped on mandates for electric vehicles.

Flipped on insurance.

More government spending.

Against, no, make that for fracking.

The rest of her agenda will be much like Biden's. 

If she doesn't flip-flop on them again.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1    4 weeks ago
An 'opportunity economy'. Whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

I literally explained that in my comment.

She has now embraced building the wall, and claims to be tough on immigration.

Correct.  

She has flipped on mandates for electric vehicles.  Flipped on insurance.

I would expect her, and every other politician, to modify positions as circumstances change.  Much better to adjust than to dogmatically cling to positions just because partisans will cry 'flip-flop'.

More government spending.

Correct.   There is no party of fiscal responsibility in the USA anymore.

Against, no, make that for fracking.

Would you prefer that she push to eliminate fracking?    Seems to me the smart move is to encourage renewable energy and migrate away from fossil fuels at a sensible pace.

The rest of her agenda will be much like Biden's. 

Not likely;  Harris (like every other PotUS) will almost certainly govern as she sees fit rather than try to mimic Biden's method.   If she continues to push for responsible measures regarding climate change, renewable energy, infrastructure, etc. then I will be pleased.   If she tries to forgive student loans, or engage in massive spending that is not constructive (i.e. merely government handouts) then I will not be pleased.  

Harris is a liberal D and one should expect that her decisions will reflect her ideology while pragmatically dealing with the current circumstances.   So while she will naturally operates from a liberal perspective, she will likely factor in politics and other practical considerations.   And that will cause you et. al. to whine that she is flip-flopping rather than applaud her moving more to your liking.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @12.1.1    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1.2    4 weeks ago
Read like something from the Harris campaign

Do you pay any attention whatsoever to her speeches?    My explanation came from her speeches.   So I would expect that her official campaign comments would also match her speeches.  

No one can credibly claim she is tough on the border and immigration ...

Where do I claim that she has been tough on the border?   Comment on what I actually write.

Doesn't make my comment one less bit true, so not sure what your point is.

You cannot figure out what I meant with a single word sentence ( 'Correct.')  in response to a point you made??   

I would prefer someone who sticks to their guns, ...

You want someone who takes a position and then refuses to change even when the circumstances change??    

Feel free to defend and justify Harris' flip flops, it doesn't make any difference to me

'Flip-flop' is a cheap partisan tactic.   It represents a truly stupid desire for politicians to never adjust their positions and to instead stubbornly stick to a position regardless of whether or not it is fully correct.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @12.1.3    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 

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