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The best laid plans

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  6 days ago  •  126 comments

The best laid plans
Joe Scarborough in March: “And F you if you can’t handle the truth. This version of Biden, intellectually, analytically, is the best Biden ever… if it weren’t the truth, I wouldn’t say it.”


Things couldn't be worse for those who so carefully planned to interfere in the 2024 election. First, they used lawfare to critically wound the former President they hate. It failed to fool the American public and has only garnered more support for Trump despite having the "convicted felon " tag placed on his back. And I'll say it again that conviction will be overturned.


Then we had the Supreme Court weigh in on Presidential immunity. It turns out that all Presidents have limited immunity. For those who went to college and became indoctrinated it means that a President can't be later convicted for an official act. That even applies to Donald Trump.

Finally, there is the matter of the media outright lying to us about the condition of Joe Biden going all the way back to 2020 when they used the pandemic as an excuse to hide him in the cellar. Way back then, the woman who just might be the nation's single best reporter, Miranda Devine told us in a New York Post story, that there was something wrong with candidate Biden. At the time she was covering the Biden campaign and immediately noticed that in even the briefest of interviews, Biden required a teleprompter and answered few questions.

Right about now the democrats figured that Trump would be bleeding out supporters & donors with the fraudulent " convicted felon " charge and that they could once again make it all about "Trump." Instead, Donald Trump made one of the greatest Poker calls in political history: he accepted a debate with Joe Biden under all the conditions that Biden wanted. This time we fully heard, without interruption, Biden speak without the teleprompters, and it was devastating. The people who listen to left wing media were astonished to learn they were lied to, and down ballot democrats are petrified that they will lose. Now the Biden campaign is fully committed to proving that Joe is mentally capable of being president. It is now all about Biden.


This piece from the New York Times says it all:

From the outset of President Biden's re-election campaign, the plan for winning was to make former President Donald J. Trump so unpalatable that voters uneasy with the incumbent would vote for him anyway.

But now Mr. Biden is stuck in a political tailspin, with an abysmal debate performance highlighting his inability to make a case against Mr. Trump and prompting a collective national hand-wringing about his ability to do his job while an increasing number of House Democrats say he should leave the race. To get voters to focus on the threats posed by a second Trump administration, Mr. Biden's own allies say he first must escape his current doom loop and convince voters — even and especially fellow Democrats — that he is up to the job himself.

"The focus has to shift back to Trump and what rights we lose if he's president," said Representative Eric Swalwell of California, who ran against Mr. Biden for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination. "The last three elections have shown us if you're the focus, you lose."

Indeed, the Biden campaign has long sought to make Mr. Trump its focus.

That's why Mr. Biden kicked off this year with a blistering speech about Mr. Trump's attempt to overthrow the last election, why his allies spent millions to block the No Labels effort and why the president has tried to highlight the anniversaries of news regarding abortion rights.

And it is why Mr. Biden's top aides thought it was a good idea to move the first debate from September to June — to give voters the one-on-one look at Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump that the president's team thought would recalibrate the race, lift Mr. Biden's sagging poll numbers and remind voters what would change if Mr. Trump takes office again in January.

A pre-debate memo from Jen O'Malley Dillon, Mr. Biden's campaign chair, mentioned Mr. Trump 18 times and Mr. Biden just five. Of Mr. Trump's record, Ms. O'Malley Dillon wrote that the president "will hold Donald Trump accountable for all of it on the debate stage — and he's raring to go."

Biden’s Strategy to Make the Race About Trump Is Suddenly in Doubt - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


Today's news:

Israelis held nationwide anti-government protests calling for a cease-fire and the return of hostages.

In Japan, the yen is plunging, as is the defense budget.

Boeing will plead guilty to a felony charge over two fatal crashes of 737 Max jets.

A half-dozen top House Democrats told colleagues in a private call that it was time for Biden to end his campaign, and discussed how to use their collective influence to convince him.

Biden is starting a crucial week. He has a NATO summit in Washington and his team has promised that he will hold a solo news conference, his first in Washington since November 2022.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    6 days ago

Good morning.

The scene from Galveston Texas:

08themorning-nl-berryl-bfqw-jumbo.jpg
Jennifer Reynolds/The Galveston County Daily News, via Associated Press

Hurricane Beryl made landfall in the Great state of Texas as a category 1 storm.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    5 days ago

Hurricane Beryl made landfall in the Great state of Texas as a category 1 storm.

Oh well, it is what it is. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @1.1    5 days ago

Last week,  Beryl carved a path of destruction across the Caribbean  − leaving at least 11 people dead and destroying or severely damaging infrastructure on several islands. Beryl, which at one point strengthened into the earliest Category 5 hurricane on record, last made landfall on Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula on Friday morning.

Beryl roars through Texas; at least 2 dead, millions without power: Live updates (msn.com)

Ok, so be it.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
1.1.2  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    5 days ago
Ok, so be it.

Texas is on it's own power grid, if the power is out, look to Texas' leadership.

Call trump, maybe he can come down to hand out paper towels and soak up all the water. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Tessylo  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.2    5 days ago

Yeah, sounds like Texas is screwed with Abbott's lack of leadership.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2  author  Vic Eldred    6 days ago

The question of the day : What will democrats do now that just about every scheme to destroy Trump has failed?

Perhaps we might see the last step from the state of Washington:

The state of Washington has effectively abolished its long-standing residency requirement for voter registration.

The decision, led by Washington Secretary of State Steve Hobbs (D) and Attorney General Bob Ferguson (D), is another attempt by Democrats to cheat on the presidential election.

The Center Square  reports that through agency rulemaking, Hobbs’ office has removed a provision that has been a part of Washington’s electoral framework since the state’s original 1889 Constitution.

This move follows a consent decree earlier this year, settling a 2023 lawsuit that claimed the residency requirement violated federal law, due to a 2018 state law.

Article VI, Section 1 of the Washington Constitution  mandated that a person must be a resident of the state for 30 days before the election to register to vote.

However, the Washington State Alliance for Retired Americans filed a lawsuit in November 2023, arguing that this requirement was in violation of the U.S. Voting Rights Act Amendments of 1970, which prohibits residency requirements for federal elections.

The  lawsuit claimed  that this “pre-election durational residency requirement” — which voters must attest to satisfying on voter registration forms — “is longer than the registration deadline and…therefore prevents voters who could otherwise lawfully register and cast ballots from doing so just because they moved into the state, county or precinct too recently.”

The plaintiff contends that Washington’s durational residency requirement disenfranchises voters who move to the state or within the state (to a new county or precinct) fewer than 30 days before Election Day.

As a result, these individuals are barred from voting in the upcoming election and cannot elect state or local officials who would represent their current residence. This regulation is crucial for maintaining the fairness of our elections and preventing voter fraud.

In response, the state Legislature passed  Senate Bill 6021 in 2018 , allowing voters to register as late as 8 p.m. on Election Day.

The Fix is In: Washington State Abolishes Residency Requirement for Voter Registration | Lou Dobbs

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    6 days ago
The decision, led by Washington Secretary of State Steve Hobbs (D) and Attorney General Bob Ferguson (D), is another attempt by Democrats to cheat on the presidential election.

On what basis?

To the demented right, everything the Democrats do is an attempt to steal some election or other. 

Meanwhile we know of an attempt to steal an election.  It is known as the Eastman memo and was approved by President Trump. An illegal plan to subvert the election that Trump was still trying to put in motion on Jan 6th when he should have been making phone calls to end the riot. Instead he was making phone calls to congressional allies to try and stop the vote count. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    6 days ago

BTW, Lou Dobbs is an idiot. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    6 days ago
On what basis?

Clearly to opening the door to nonresident voting.


To the demented right, everything the Democrats do is an attempt to steal some election or other. 

Based on the facts of what they have done.


 Instead he was making phone calls to congressional allies to try and stop the vote count. 

Can you assure us that democrats won't try that should he win?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.1    6 days ago
BTW, Lou Dobbs is an idiot. 

Well, that solves it.

Does that mean the state of Washington didn't just approve non-resident voting?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.3    6 days ago

And btw there is this:

House Democrats launched a united  effort to vote against a Republican-backed election bill that would require voters provide proof of citizenship to cast ballots in federal elections. 

Republicans are pushing the passage of the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act, otherwise known as the SAVE Act, which would amend the National Voter Registration Act, and require states to obtain proof of citizenship from voters for federal elections, as well as purge noncitizens from voter rolls. 

House Dems launch united effort against election bill requiring voters prove citizenship (msn.com)

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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.2    6 days ago
the U.S. Voting Rights Act Amendments of 1970, which prohibits residency requirements for federal elections.

The  lawsuit claimed  that this “pre-election durational residency requirement” — which voters must attest to satisfying on voter registration forms — “is longer than the registration deadline and…therefore prevents voters who could otherwise lawfully register and cast ballots from doing so just because they moved into the state, county or precinct too recently.”

The plaintiff contends that Washington’s durational residency requirement disenfranchises voters who move to the state or within the state (to a new county or precinct) fewer than 30 days before Election Day.

I dont understand what your objection is to that. It must be just because Democrats proposed it. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.5    6 days ago

Where is your link?

As far as what the state of Washington is trying to do:

There are a few reasons. We could have people temporarily moving into states just to vote there in the 2024 election. There is also the problem of people voting in two different states because of this 30-day window.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Sean Treacy  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.4    6 days ago

It’s impossible to object to that bill, unless you want illegal aliens voting. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.8  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    6 days ago
On what basis?

On what basis are Democrats overturning a long standing residency law?

To the demented right, everything the Democrats do is an attempt to steal some election or other. 

Coming from the demented left that screamed Georgia's new election law was "too restrictive" and would disenfranchise voters that is a laugh. Only took 1 election to disprove their pearl clenching.

Meanwhile we know of an attempt to steal an election. 

Just one? You are leaving out Gore, Kerry, Hillary, Obama, Biden, and a host of other Democrats at state levels.

An illegal plan to subvert the election that Trump was still trying to put in motion on Jan 6th when he should have been making phone calls to end the riot.

Trump is not in charge of DC security. At that time it fell to Bowser, and Pelosi & McConnel (through their respective Sergeants at Arms). In case you forgot Trump offered 10,000 National Guard troops for security- he was rejected by both Bowser and Pelosi.

Top Takeaways:
  1. A January 6 committee staffer asked Ornato, “When it comes to the National Guard statement about having 10,000 troops or any other number of troops, do you recall any discussion prior to the 6th about whether and how many National Guard troops to deploy on January 6th?”  Ornato surprised the committee by noting he did recall a conversation between Meadows and Bowser: “He was on the phone with her and wanted to make sure she had everything that she needed,” Ornato told investigators.

     

  2. Meadows “wanted to know if she need any more guardsmen,” Ornato testified. “And I remember the number 10,000 coming up of, you know, ‘ The president wants to make sure that you have enough.’ You know, ‘He is willing to ask for 10,000. ’ I remember that number. Now that you said it, it reminded me of it. And that she was all set. She had, I think it was like 350 or so for intersection control, and those types of things not in the law enforcement capacity at the time.”  Ornato was correct.   Bowser  declined the offer , asking only for a few hundred National Guard and requiring them to serve in a  very limited capacity

     

  3. Bowser’s decision to decline help from the White House did not end the Trump team’s efforts to secure troops ahead of the protest. When the D.C. mayor declined Trump’s offer of 10,000 troops,   Ornato said the White House requested a “quick reaction force” out of the Defense Department in case it was needed.

     

  4. Once the Capitol was breached, the Trump White House pushed for immediate help from Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller and grew frustrated at the slow deployment of that help,   according to the testimony .  “So then I remember the chief saying, ‘Hey, I’m calling secretary of defense to get that [quick reaction force] in here,” Ornato said. Later he said, “And then I remember the chief telling Miller, ‘Get them in here, get them in here to secure the Capitol now.'”

     

  5. Cheney and her committee falsely claimed they had “no evidence” to support Trump officials’ claims the White House had communicated its desire for 10,000 National Guard troops.   In fact, an early transcribed interview conducted by the committee included precisely that evidence from a key source. The interview, which Cheney attended and personally participated in, was suppressed from public release until now.

Instead he was making phone calls to congressional allies to try and stop the vote count. 

Disproven as above. Trump's administration was handling- as per suppressed testimony from the Jan 6th committee. 

 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.6    6 days ago

Do you seriously believe that people voting in two states effect election results? 

And anyway, most of the instances I have heard of that were republicans. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.7    6 days ago

You notice that none of them are commenting on it. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.8    6 days ago
Trump is not in charge of DC security. At that time it fell to Bowser, and Pelosi & McConnel (through their respective Sergeants at Arms). In case you forgot Trump offered 10,000 National Guard troops for security- he was rejected by both Bowser and Pelosi.

total nonsense

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.12  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.8    6 days ago
Bowser’s decision to decline help from the White House did not end the Trump team’s efforts to secure troops ahead of the protest. When the D.C. mayor declined Trump’s offer of 10,000 troops,   Ornato said the White House requested a “quick reaction force” out of the Defense Department in case it was needed.

DURING THE RIOT, what did Trump do to end it?   I doubt if you know , because he has yet to answer the question, even when it is posed to him directly. Jake tapper asked him at the debate and Trump answered by babbling about the border.  Pure consciouness of guilt. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.13  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.9    6 days ago
Do you seriously believe that people voting in two states effect election results?

Anything effecting voting in certain states could be decisive in a close election.


And anyway, most of the instances I have heard of that were republicans. 

Really? Here in Boston, we have a lot of students voting. Do they vote if they go back home as well?

I'm not interested in which party you think benefits. I want secure elections. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    6 days ago
“Not only did President Trump refuse to tell the mob to leave the Capitol, he placed no call to any element of the United States government to instruct that the Capitol be defended,” said Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., during the panel’s wide-ranging Thursday night hearing on the event.

“He did not call his secretary of defense on Jan. 6. He did not talk to his Attorney General. He did not talk to the Department of Homeland Security,” Cheney added. “President Trump gave no order to deploy the National Guard that day. And he made no effort to work with the Department of Justice to coordinate and deploy law enforcement assets.”

The statements were backed up with testimony from J oint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley , who said that Pence told Pentagon leaders to “get the Guard down here, put down this situation.”

Pence — not Trump — asked Guard troops to help defend Capitol on Jan. 6, panel says (militarytimes.com)
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.15  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.14    6 days ago

This is why Trump did not answer Tapper's question. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.16  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.13    6 days ago

Not that many people vote in two states. The idea that such would be an organized plan involving thousands of people  is ludicrous

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.17  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    6 days ago

Prove Trump is in charge of DC security.

Go ahead we can all wait. I already proved who is.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.18  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.12    6 days ago

Again, Trump isn't in charge of DC security. [No value]

[] You can't seem to blame those responsible. Bowser, Pelosi, and McConnell. Their stupidity lead to the Jan 6th riot.

Also, Pence was a part of the Trump administration at the time. I said the Trump administration was acting; and it was!

You don't know what Trump did either; [] and what Democrats have done to this country for the last 8 years and counting.

Republicans suck; but Democrats have taken sucking to a whole new damn level.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.19  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.17    6 days ago
“He did not call his secretary of defense on Jan. 6. He did not talk to his Attorney General. He did not talk to the Department of Homeland Security,” Cheney added. “President Trump gave no order to deploy the National Guard that day. And he made no effort to work with the Department of Justice to coordinate and deploy law enforcement assets.”

Those are the facts. And the president has the authority to call out National Guard to defend the Capitol building. 

This provision authorizes the president to use the military to suppress "any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy" if local law enforcement is unable to provide sufficient protection. It doesn't require the request — or even the permission — of the state.  What is a president's authority to send in federal troops? (nbcnews.com)
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.20  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.18    6 days ago
You don't know what Trump did either

Since I watched the J6 hearings, I do know what he did not do. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.21  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.18    6 days ago
You don't know what Trump did either; but no matter what Trump did on Jan 6th you would be bitching. Because that is all you can do.

What a pathetic comment. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.22  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.8    6 days ago
  • There is no record of former President Donald Trump authorizing or requesting thousands of National Guard troops for the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

  • Several Trump administration officials who have testified before the House select committee investigating Jan. 6 said they never heard Trump request National Guard support before or during the attack.

  • Congressional Democrats did not deny a request for troops. The D.C. National Guard reports only to the president. If such a request had been made, they would not have had the authority to deny it.

PolitiFact | No proof Trump asked for troops on Jan. 6 or that Democrats denied a request

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.4    5 days ago

[]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.24  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.3    5 days ago

No such thing as non-resident voting in elections.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.25  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.17    5 days ago
I already proved who is.

That is the fact they can't overcome. The very fact which they always try to muddy up.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.26  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.11    5 days ago

Complete lie.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.27  MrFrost  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.17    5 days ago
Prove Trump is in charge of DC security.

He was in charge of security of the entire fucking country and pretty sure DC is part of the country! 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.28  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.27    5 days ago
He was in charge of security of the entire fucking country and pretty sure DC is part of the country! 

Are you aware of differing levels of government and responsibility?  

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.29  MrFrost  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.28    5 days ago

Are you aware of differing levels of government and responsibility?  

Are you aware that anyone in charge is ultimately responsible for what happens under his/her command? 

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
2.1.30  GregTx  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.29    5 days ago

Careful, don't paint yourself into a corner...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.31  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.29    5 days ago
Are you aware that anyone in charge is ultimately responsible for what happens under his/her command? 

Yes, I have 48 years in the Army.  Do you have a point.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.32  MrFrost  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.31    3 days ago
Yes, I have 48 years in the Army.  Do you have a point.

Already made it, sorry you missed it. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.33  MrFrost  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1.7    3 days ago

It’s impossible to object to that bill, unless you want illegal aliens voting. 

Which is already illegal. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.34  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.33    3 days ago

There are multiple instances of new laws being passed even when old ones are still on the books.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.35  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.32    3 days ago

You got that right.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.2  charger 383  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    6 days ago
"The plaintiff contends that Washington’s durational residency requirement disenfranchises voters who move to the state or within the state (to a new county or precinct) fewer than 30 days before Election Day."
then they should vote where they were 30 days before the election

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  charger 383 @2.2    6 days ago

So how many places will they be able to vote?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    5 days ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2.3    5 days ago

It seems to be powerful stuff.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.2  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.1    5 days ago

Projection sure is.  The complete opposite of truth/reality.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.1    5 days ago

Lies.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
3  George    6 days ago
A half-dozen top House Democrats told colleagues in a private call that it was time for Biden to end his campaign, and discussed how to use their collective influence to convince him.

There is only one problem with this, the person you are talking to has to cognizant enough to understand, they should have a meeting with Jill about ending this elder abuse.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  George @3    6 days ago
they should have a meeting with Jill about ending this elder abuse.

Very good. It is Jill and his sister who are pushing him on.

God speed to them.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    6 days ago

Per the New York Times, hunter and Jill are calling the shots 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.1    6 days ago

That is frightening, but not as scary as whoever it was that opened the southern border.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  JohnRussell    6 days ago
The debate served as a reminder of what another four years of Trump would look like. More lies, grievance, narcissism, and hate. Supporters say they like Trump because he says whatever he thinks. But he mainly spews raw sewage. Trump attacks the military. He denigrates the Justice Department and judges. He belittles the FBI and the CIA. He picks fights with allies and cozies up to dictators. To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race | Editorial (inquirer.com)
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4    6 days ago

Lol.

I'll take the secure border, the prosperity, safe streets and enemies who fear having Trump's finger on the button.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.1.1  George  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    6 days ago
enemies who fear having Trump's finger on the button.

Did you hear Wesley Hunts story about trumps meeting with the Taliban leader?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    6 days ago

We have record numbers of people traveling for fun. There is prosperity NOW. 

The lower class never prospers and did not prosper under Trump. 

As for safe streets , the president has no role in that. 

The worlds dictators are cheering for Trump to win, so they hardly fear him. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  George @4.1.1    6 days ago
Wesley Hunts story about trumps meeting with the Taliban leader?

I'm very familiar with it.

That highlights the difference between Trump and Biden.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.2    6 days ago

Where do you live?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    6 days ago
four years of Trump would look like. More lies, grievance, narcissism, and hate.

It is interesting that you didnt dispute that. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.5    6 days ago

Do I have to dispute obvious propaganda?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.4    6 days ago

what do you want, my address ? 

I live on the southwest side of Chicago. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.6    6 days ago

LOL. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.6    6 days ago

Will people ever learn that propaganda is no substitute for rational arguments?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.9    6 days ago

It is the last resort for those who have no facts to back up what they believe. They just chant the same stuff over & over again and hope it will stick.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.9    6 days ago
Will people ever learn that propaganda is no substitute for rational arguments?

I agree. When will we see some? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.7    6 days ago
I live on the southwest side of Chicago. 

Then it must be an amazing place if there is so much prosperity, vacation time and immunity from the past three horrendous years.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.10    6 days ago
It is the last resort for those who have no facts to back up what they believe. They just chant the same stuff over & over again and hope it will stick.

I have never seen anyone as blind to Trump's mountainous personal flaws as you.  You know literally nothing about Jan 6th because you hide from the truth. You think Trump is a persecuted victim rather than the con man, liar, crook, and sexual assaulter that he is. 

Some things are beyond fixing. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.12    6 days ago
It is the last resort for those who have no facts to back up what they believe. They just chant the same stuff over & over again and hope it will stick.

I wasnt speaking about Chicago. Dont you follow the news ? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.11    6 days ago
When will we see some? 

You tell me. Two weeks ago, you said that stories about Biden's decline were examples of misinformation and disinformation that should be censored.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.13    6 days ago
Some things are beyond fixing. 

My aim is to fix the deep state.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.17  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.14    6 days ago
I wasnt speaking about Chicago.

But you just said you live there and in your world everything is great.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.18  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.17    6 days ago

i said i live in chicago because you asked me where i live. no other reason

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.19  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.18    6 days ago

And you were asked that question because you were describing a fantasy world.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.20  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.6    6 days ago
More lies, grievance, narcissism, and hate.

Do you seriously dispute that Trump lies, constantly expresses personal grievance, is a full blown narcissist, and spews hate?

Trump recently gave his approval to a social media post that called for a televised military tribunal putting Liz Cheney on trial for treason.   Does that sound like the act of a rational, stable man ? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.21  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.19    6 days ago

Let me LOL you again. I cant think of anything else. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.1.22  George  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.15    6 days ago

And 2 weeks from now they will return to Russian propaganda and right wing disinformation. And Biden will still be mentally challenged like I’ve been saying for months.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.23  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.20    6 days ago
Do you seriously dispute that Trump lies, constantly expresses personal grievance, is a full blown narcissist, and spews hate?

I do!


Trump recently gave his approval to a social media post that called for a televised military tribunal putting Liz Cheney on trial for treason. 

He reposted an image. When will you ever stop?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.24  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  George @4.1.22    6 days ago
Trump recently gave his approval to a social media post that called for a televised military tribunal putting Liz Cheney on trial for treason. 

Unfortunately, I think they are now only left to trying to do something to the electoral process.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.25  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.21    6 days ago
Let me LOL you again. I cant think of anything else. 

You calling Trump a crook is hardly worthy of me calling Biden mentally impaired. I would be on solid ground, but the real focus should be on their performance as Presidents. When you are ready to defend an open border and needless inflation, let me know.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.1.26  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.2    6 days ago

We have record numbers of people traveling for fun. There is prosperity NOW. 

.

While the new year marks a time for new beginnings and a fresh start, millions of Americans entered 2024 with more debt and less to put in their checking and  savings accounts . At the start of the year, U.S. household debt reached a record high of $17.3 trillion, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (NYFRB).

Americans — particularly   Millennials   and   those with lower incomes   — are becoming increasingly overextended financially: Credit card and auto loan delinquencies have not only surpassed pre-pandemic levels, they’re the highest they’ve been in more than a decade.

During the fourth quarter, US household debt hit a   fresh high   of $17.5 trillion, up 1.2% from the three months before, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York’s latest Quarterly Report on Household Debt and Credit released Tuesday.

Debt balances increased across the board, with credit card balances rising $50 billion to hit a new nominal high of $1.13 trillion (when adjusting for inflation, balances have yet to surpass the levels seen in 2008).

Your definition of prosperity sucks! If things are so great why has personal debt never been higher? Why are more people in debt than ever before?

The lower class never prospers and did not prosper under Trump. 

So why the fuck should the lower class vote for Democrats? Since they "never prosper". They are carrying far more debt under Biden; so that is a great reason to vote against him!

The worlds dictators are cheering for Trump to win, so they hardly fear him. 

Talk is cheap, prove it!

We all know who China is rooting for this election. Same with Iran, Houthi, Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS/ISIL, Taliban, Ukraine etc; and it sure as hell isn't Trump!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.27  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.23    5 days ago

When you "retweet" something on social media, you are showing agreement with it.  That is how it works. 

"He reposted an image"

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.10    5 days ago

So true!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.29  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.27    5 days ago
you are showing agreement with it.

You are showing you liked it which is far different than adopting a policy based on it.

Will you ever stop?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.30  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.16    5 days ago

no such thing

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.31  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.30    5 days ago

Then who violated Carter Page's civil rights?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.32  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.11    5 days ago
I agree

Wonderful, I'll look forward to your posts reflecting that.

When will we see some? 

Plenty here to read if one so chooses.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.33  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.16    3 days ago
My aim is to fix the deep state.

There is no deep state. It is a fiction created by people who wish to destroy the government. It is one step away from the Star Chamber. ...but I see that it is continuing to work on some.

I wish that people could bitch about something real for a change. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.34  Sean Treacy  replied to  Thomas @4.1.33    3 days ago

There is no deep state

of course there is, it’s the class of professional bureaucrats who run the administrative agencies.  It’s amazing how quickly the democrats ditched the memory of “the resistance” they were so proud of during trumps presidency.  Once they realized how it was incompatible with their conversion to “defenders of democracy” they pretended it never happened.

It is one step away from the Star Chamber

which was absolutely real.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Quiet
4.1.35  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Thomas @4.1.33    3 days ago
I wish that people could bitch about something real for a change. 

maybe they think it's a really deep state...

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.1.36  Thomas  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.34    3 days ago
it’s the class of professional bureaucrats who run the administrative agencies

No.

That is called bureaucracy. Every government has it, almost by definition.  

It is one step away from the Star Chamber which was absolutely real.

Yes, in the 15th century. Currently, not so much.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.37  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @4.1.33    yesterday
There is no deep state.

Oh, I see.

Thank you for another substantive discussion. / S

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4    6 days ago

Biden is as big a liar as trump.

its what make this whole line of attack on trump so ridiculous. Biden came to national prominence because he was such a prolific liar. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2    6 days ago

Miranda Divine said he was the biggest liar to ever hold the office.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2    5 days ago
Biden is as big a liar as trump.

lol.

Trump lied 6 times as much as Biden in the debate.  

It is fun to watch people who say they dont care for Trump defend him though. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
4.2.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.2    5 days ago
It is fun to watch people who say they dont care for Trump defend him though.

Almost as fun as it is to watch those like yourself defend Biden.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.1    5 days ago
Miranda Divine

most people have never heard of Miranda Divine

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.4    5 days ago

Who?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.4    5 days ago

When I saw Divine, I immediately thought of John Waters, a Baltimore icon/filmmaker known for Serial Mom among his movies and Divine is one of his stars.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.2    5 days ago
rump lied 6 times as much as Biden in the debate.  

PROVE IT

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.4    5 days ago

Your point?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.7    5 days ago

here is a taste for you

www.politifact.com   /article/2024/jun/28/2024-presidential-debate-fact-check-biden-trump/

2024 presidential debate: Fact-checks of Biden and Trump

PolitiFact Staff 27-34 minutes


President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump, the presumptive Democratic and Republican presidential nominees, shared a debate stage June 27 for the first time since 2020, in a feisty confrontation that — thanks to debate rules — managed to avoid the near-constant interruptions that marred their previous meetings.

Biden, who spoke in a raspy voice at the debate’s start, struggled at times, at one point saying that his administration "finally beat Medicare." After the debate, during a stop at a Waffle House, Biden told reporters he had a sore throat, according to the pool report.

Trump, meanwhile, repeated numerous falsehoods, including that Democrats want doctors to be able to abort babies after birth.

Trump attacked Biden’s record, blaming inflation and other issues on Biden’s "insane and stupid policies." Biden questioned Trump’s conduct, noting that Trump is a convicted felon and saying he has the "morals of an alley cat."

CNN   hosted the debate, which had no audience, at its Atlanta studio. CNN anchors Jake Tapper and Dana Bash moderated. The debate   format   allowed CNN to mute candidates’ microphones when it wasn’t their turn to speak.

Biden and Trump clashed on the economy, immigration and abortion, and revisited discussion of their ages. Biden is 81; Trump is 78.

Read by topic: 

Immigration
Abortion
Inflation and economy
Jobs
Trump legal cases
Social Security, Medicare and taxes
Checking the record on Hitler comment and Charlottesville
Crime
Health care
Foreign policy and terrorism
Election denial and Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol
Worst president rankings
The golf moment

Immigration 

Trump: Biden "allowed millions of people to come in here from prisons, jails and mental institutions."

Pants on Fire!   Immigration officials arrested about 103,700 noncitizens with criminal convictions (whether in the U.S. or abroad) from fiscal years 2021 to 2024, federal data shows. That accounts for people stopped at and between ports of entry.

Not everyone was let in. The term "noncitizens" includes people who may have had legal immigration status in the U.S. but were not U.S. citizens.

The data reflects the people that the federal government knows about, but it’s inexhaustive. However, immigration experts said despite the data’s limitations, there is no evidence to support Trump’s statement.

Biden: "I've changed (the law) in the way that now you're in a situation where there are 40% fewer people coming across the border illegally."

Mostly True . The Department of Homeland Security   announced   that illegal immigration encounters dropped by 40%, to fewer than   2,400 each day , in the weeks after Biden announced a policy largely barring asylum access for people entering the U.S. at the southern border. The policy was announced June 4.

But immigration experts   caution   that it’s difficult to pinpoint a single reason for any change in border crossings. For example, other factors, such as   hot weather , can affect migration patterns.

Since the policy was announced only a few weeks ago, it’s unclear whether the drop in illegal immigration will   continue

Colleen Putzel-Kavanaugh, associate policy analyst at the Migration Policy Institute, told   PolitiFact   the policy could have a short-term deterrent effect. But Adam Isacson, defense oversight director at the Washington Office on Latin America, a research group, told   PolitiFact, that no crackdown in the past decade has had a lasting impact.    

Trump: "We had the safest border in the history of our country."

Mostly False . Illegal immigration between ports of entry at the U.S. southern border dropped in 2017,  Trump’s first year in office, compared with previous years. Apprehensions then rose, and dropped again in 2020. When the COVID-19 pandemic started, immigration dropped drastically worldwide as governments enacted policies limiting people’s movement.

In the months before Trump left office,   illegal immigration   was rising again. A spike in   migrants , especially   unaccompanied minors , started in the spring 2020 during the Trump administration and generally continued to climb each month.

Illegal immigration during Trump’s administration was higher than under both of former President Barack Obama’s terms. 

Biden: While talking about a bipartisan border bill, "by the way, the Border Patrol endorsed me, endorsed my position."

Half True . The National Border Patrol Council — the U.S. Border Patrol’s union endorsed a   bipartisan border security bill   in February. But it didn’t endorse Biden.

Here's what Brandon Judd, the union’s president,   said   about the bill in February:

"While not perfect, the Border Act of 2024 is a step in the right direction and is far better than the current status quo. This is why the National Border Patrol Council endorses this bill and hopes for its quick passage."

Biden also supported the bill and   said   he would sign it into law if it passed. The bill failed in the Senate on a 49-50   vote .

However, Judd and the Border Patrol union have been critical of Biden and his immigration policies and   endorsed   Trump in the 2020 election.

"To be clear, we never have and never will endorse Biden," the National Border Patrol Council said in an X   post   during the debate.

Trump: Biden allowed in "18 million people."

False . Immigration officials have   encountered   immigrants illegally crossing the border 9.7 million times under Biden’s presidency. When accounting for "got aways" — people who aren’t stopped by border officials — the number rises to about 11.4 million. 

But   encounters   don’t mean   admissions . Encounters represent events, so one person who tried to cross the border twice counts for two encounters. Also, not everyone encountered is let in. Many encounters result in deportations. The Department of Homeland Security   estimates   about 4 million encounters have led to expulsions or removals.

Abortion

Trump: "The problem (Democrats) have is they're radical, because they will take the life of a child in the eighth month, the ninth month, and even after birth."

False.   Willfully terminating a newborn’s life is infanticide and is illegal in every U.S. state. 

Most elected Democrats who have spoken publicly about this have said they support abortion under Roe v. Wade’s standard, which provided abortion access up to fetal viability. This is typically around 24 weeks of pregnancy, when the fetus can survive outside of the womb. Many of these Democrats have also said they support abortions past this point if the treating physician deems it necessary.

Medical experts say situations resulting in fetal death in the third trimester are rare — less than 1% of abortions in the U.S. occur after 21 weeks — and typically involve fatal fetal anomalies or life-threatening emergencies affecting the pregnant woman. For fetuses with very short life expectancies, doctors may induce labor and offer palliative care. Some families choose this option when facing diagnoses that limit their babies’ survival to minutes or days after delivery.

Some Republicans who have made claims similar to Trump’s point to Democratic support of the   Women’s Health Protection Act of 2022 , citing the bill’s provisions that say providers and patients have the right to perform and receive abortion services without certain limitations or requirements that would impede access. Anti-abortion advocates say the provisions in the bill, which failed to advance 49-51, would have created a loophole that eliminated any limits to abortions later in pregnancy.

Alina Salganicoff, director of KFF’s Women’s Health Policy program, said the legislation would have allowed health providers to perform abortions without obstacles such as waiting periods, medically unnecessary tests and in-person visits, or other restrictions. The bill would have allowed an abortion after viability when, "in the good-faith medical judgment of the treating health care provider, continuation of the pregnancy would pose a risk to the pregnant patient’s life or health."

stage_from_the_right.jpg
Former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden debate June 27, 2024, in Atlanta. (AP)

Trump: "He caused this inflation. I gave him a country with … essentially no inflation. It was perfect."

Mostly False . When Biden was inaugurated, year-over-year inflation was about 1.4%. However, that was shaped by the still-weak economy during the coronavirus pandemic, which was still a serious threat when Biden was inaugurated.

As the pandemic conditions improved, the economy accelerated. Consumers were ready to buy products, but the pandemic had prompted supply chain shortages. This, combined with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine which raised gasoline prices, led to inflation, peaking at 9% about a year and a half into Biden’s presidency. That was the highest in about four decades. 

Economists   generally say   Biden’s coronavirus relief plan, the American Rescue Plan, did exacerbate inflation by putting more money into consumers’ hands at a time when supplies were running short. But they do not believe that Biden caused high inflation single-handedly.

Trump: "You look at the cost of food, where it's double, triple and quadruple."

False.  Food costs have risen faster under President Joe Biden than under any of his five most recent predecessors. However, the 21% increase in food prices on Biden’s watch is well below what Trump claimed. Quadrupling food costs would be an increase of 300%, or more than 10 times larger than what Trump said.

Specific categories of food have spiked more than food prices overall. For instance, egg prices are 84% higher today than when Biden took office. But for every food category that has outrun overall food inflation, there’s another category that has risen more slowly than average.

Also, this increase was spread over three and a half years, making the annual increase about 6%, part of which has been offset by   rising wages .

Biden: "Economists say (Trump’s proposed tariffs are) going to cost the average American $2,500 a year or more."

Mostly True.   Most economists expect that Trump’s proposed   10% across-the-board tariff on foreign products   will force consumers to pay more. The specific size of that hit is open to debate, though Biden offered a figure somewhat higher than current estimates.

Just days before the debate, the American Action Forum, a center-right think tank,   projected   additional costs per household of $1,700 to $2,350 annually.

The Peterson Institute of International Economics, another Washington, D.C.-based think tank,   projected   that such tariffs would cost a middle-income household about $1,700 extra each year.

trump_closeup.jpg
Former President Donald Trump responds to a question June 27, 2024, during a debate against President Joe Biden in Atlanta. (AP)

Jobs

Biden: Semiconductor jobs "to build these chips … pay over $100,000. You don’t need a college degree for them."

Mostly False . The average semiconductor industry salary is around $170,000, figures from Oxford Economics and Semiconductor Industry Association, a trade group, show. But this figure includes all jobs within the industry and doesn’t single out jobs requiring no college degree.

To earn a salary of $110,000 or higher, employees in the semiconductor industry need undergraduate or graduate-level degrees, the groups say.

The most a person would make without a four-year degree is about $70,000, according to a 2021 report from the Semiconductor Industry Association and Oxford Economics.

Biden: "Black unemployment is the lowest level it’s been in a long, long time."

Mostly True .  The record for low Black unemployment rate was set under Biden in April 2023, at 4.8%. It has risen modestly since then to 6.1 % in May 2024, but that’s still lower than it was for much of the first two years under Trump. 

Overall, Trump had success on this statistic, too. When Biden set the record, the record he was breaking was Trump’s: 5.3% in August and September 2019.

Trump: "The only jobs (Biden) created are for illegal immigrants and bounce-back jobs, bounce-back from the COVID."

False . Since Biden took office in early 2021, the number of   foreign-born Americans   who are employed has risen by about 5.6 million. But over the same time period, the number of   native-born Americans   employed has increased by almost 7.4 million. (There are many more native-born Americans than foreign-born Americans, so on a percentage basis, the increase for foreign-born Americans is about 22%, compared with 6% for native-born Americans.)

It’s also wrong to say that all the foreign-born employment gains (much less all the employment gains) stem from migrants here illegally. The data for foreign-born Americans includes anyone born outside the U.S., including immigrants who have been in the United States legally for decades.

Employment on Biden’s watch passed its prepandemic level by June 2022, about a year and a half into his term. Since then, the U.S. economy has created an additional 6.2 million jobs.

Trump legal cases 

Trump: Biden "indicted me because I was his opponent."

False . The Manhattan district attorney’s investigation into Trump’s business records began before Biden was president, but Biden was president by the time Trump was charged in 2023.

After Michael Cohen, who had been an attorney for Trump, pleaded guilty to federal charges in 2018, then-Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. began investigating the payments,   Politico reported . That was before Biden was president. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg hired a former Justice Department prosecutor in 2022. But experts told us that doesn’t prove Biden was involved.

Trump has also been indicted by a Fulton County, Georgia, grand jury and two federal grand juries. Biden is not responsible for state or federal prosecutors’ decisions to present cases to grand juries.

debate_biden.jpg
President Joe Biden gestures after answering a question during the June 27, 2024, debate against former President Donald Trump in Atlanta. (AP)

Social Security, Medicare and taxes

Trump: "Social Security, he's destroying it, because millions of people are pouring into our country, and they're putting them onto Social Security. They're putting them onto Medicare, Medicaid."  

False . It’s   wrong   to say that immigration will destroy Social Security. Social Security’s fiscal challenges stem from a shortage of workers compared with beneficiaries. 

Immigration is far from a fiscal fix-all for Social Security’s challenges. But having more immigrants in the United States would increase the worker-to-beneficiary ratio, potentially for decades, thus extending the program’s solvency, experts say.

Most immigrants in the U.S. illegally are also   ineligible   for Social Security. However, people who entered the U.S. illegally and were granted humanitarian parole — a temporary permission to stay in the country — for more than one year, are eligible for Social Security. 

Immigrants in the U.S. illegally also are generally   ineligible   to enroll   in federally funded health care coverage such as Medicare and Medicaid. (Some   states   provide Medicaid coverage under   state-funded programs   regardless of immigration status. Immigrants are eligible for emergency Medicaid regardless of status.)

Biden: Trump "wants to get rid of Social Security, he thinks there's plenty to cut in Social Security."

False . Biden went further than previous attacks to say Trump would cut the program entirely. In a   March CNBC interview , Trump said of entitlement programs such as Social Security, "There’s a lot you can do in terms of entitlements, in terms of cutting." 

However, Trump quickly walked that statement back. Also, his campaign website says that not "a single penny" should be cut from Social Security, and he’s repeated similar lines in campaign rallies.

Before the 2024 campaign, Trump said about a half dozen times that he’s open to major overhauls of Social Security, including cuts and privatization.

Trump: "He wants to raise your taxes by four times. He wants to raise everybody's taxes by four times."

False . Biden proposed a tax increase of about 7% over the next decade, which is far lower than the 300% increase that former President Donald Trump claimed. (Doubling would be a 100% increase and tripling would be a 200% increase.)

About 83% of the proposed Biden tax increase would be borne by the top 1% of taxpayers, a level that starts at just under $1 million a year in income. 

Taxpayers earning up to $60,400 would see their yearly taxes decline on average, and taxpayers earning $60,400 to $107,300 would see an annual increase of $20 on average.

Biden: "I said I’d never raise the tax on anybody if you're making less than $400,000. I didn’t."

Mostly True . Biden   has   said   repeatedly   that   he will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000, a   promise he campaigned on in 2020 .

He has not raised any individual income taxes on Americans earning less than $400,000 a year. It’s always possible that individual taxpayers could see increases because of changes in their personal circumstances.

Some corporate tax increases enacted on Biden’s watch have a small projected pass-through effect on taxpayers. Economists generally allocate a portion of the tax burden from corporate taxes to shareholders and partly to consumers, who often pay higher prices as corporations factor the higher taxes into pricing of goods and services.

The White House has told PolitiFact that Biden would let the tax cuts Trump signed in 2017 expire for wealthier taxpayers, but would not let Americans making less than $400,000 see any tax increase. 

Trump: "I gave you the largest tax cut in history."

False . When it was passed in 2017, Trump’s tax cut was, in inflation-adjusted dollars, the fourth-largest since 1940. And as a percentage of gross domestic product, it ranked seventh in history,   according to figures   published by the Treasury Department.

Checking the record on "suckers and losers," "Hitler's done some good things," and Charlottesville, Virginia

Biden: Trump said, "I don't want to go in (a World War I cemetery in France), because they're a bunch of losers and suckers." 

Trump called this a "made-up quote." Both statements need context.

A September 2020   article in The Atlantic   cited unnamed sources as saying that Trump called Americans who died in wars "suckers" and "losers" when he canceled a trip in 2018 to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris. 

"Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers," The Atlantic reported Trump said, citing multiple unnamed sources. In a separate conversation, also according to unnamed sources, he said U.S. Marines who lost their lives in World War I’s Battle of Belleau Wood were "suckers" for getting killed.

John Kelly, Trump’s former chief of staff, confirmed elements of The Atlantic’s story three years later in an October 2023   statement to CNN , including that Trump referred to military members who were killed or wounded as "suckers" and "losers."

But Trump has long denied these allegations.

Biden: "This is a guy who says Hitler's done some good things." 

This is a reference to a passage in a book by CNN anchor Jim Sciutto in which Kelly, Trump's former chief of staff, described a conversation he had with Trump.

"He said, ‘Well, but Hitler did some good things,’" Kelly   said . "I said, ‘Well, what?’ And he said, ‘Well, (Adolf Hitler) rebuilt the economy.’"

According to the book, Kelly also told Sciutto that Hitler had the "loyalty" of his senior staff, unlike Trump.

There is no independent verification of this conversation. Trump campaign spokesperson Steven Cheung told CNN in March that Kelly suffered from "a severe case of Trump Derangement Syndrome," but didn’t address the specific allegations. 

Biden: Trump called Nazis protesting in the crowd in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 "very fine people."

Trump vehemently denied Biden’s characterization. Here’s what happened.

In   comments   to reporters following violent protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the removal of a Confederate general’s statue, Trump said of marchers who protested the removal, "You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides." 

During back-and-forth remarks with reporters, Trump separately condemned the "neo-Nazis and the white nationalists."

"But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me," Trump said. "Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Trump also said that counterprotesters had similar makeup of "good" and "bad" people — "some fine people" and also " troublemakers" and "bad people."

debate_lecterns_2.jpg
President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump’s debated immigration, abortion, the economy and golf June 27, 2024, in Atlanta. (AP)

Crime

Trump: "What he's done to the Black population is horrible, including the fact that for 10 years, he called them super predators … in the 1990s."

False . In a 1993 Senate floor speech, Biden, then a U.S. senator from Delaware, spoke about doing something for young people who lacked supervision, structure or opportunities. He said the country needed to focus on them, because otherwise, a portion of them would "become the predators 15 years from now."

Biden did not single out any racial or ethnic group. In a 1998 speech at an attorneys general conference, Biden also used the term "predators." He didn’t say he was talking about Black youth.

Health care

Biden: "We brought down the price (of) prescription drug(s), which is a major issue for many people, to $15 for an insulin shot, as opposed to $400."

Half True . Biden touted his efforts to reduce prescription drug costs by referring to the $35 insulin price cap his administration instituted as part of the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act. But he flubbed the number during the debate, saying it was lowered to $15. In his closing statement, Biden corrected the number to $35.  

The price of insulin for Medicare enrollees starting in 2023 dropped to $35 a month, not $15. Drug pricing experts told PolitFact when we rated a similar claim that most Medicare enrollees were likely not paying a monthly average of $400 before the changes, although because costs vary depending on coverage phases and dosages, some might have paid that much in a given month.

Biden: Trump "wants to get rid of the ACA again."

Half True . In 2016, Trump campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, or ACA. In the White House, Trump supported a failed effort to do just that. In the years since, he has repeatedly said he would dismantle the health care law in campaign stops and social media posts throughout 2023.

In March, however, Trump walked back this stance, writing on Truth Social that he "isn’t running to terminate" the ACA but to make it "better" and "less expensive." Trump hasn’t said how he would do this.

Trump: "I'm the one that got the insulin down for the seniors."

Mostly False . When he was president, Trump instituted the   Part D Senior Savings Model , a program that capped insulin costs to $35 a month for some older Americans in drug plans that chose to participate. 

But because it was voluntary,   38% of all Medicare drug plans , including Medicare Advantage plans, participated in 2022, according to KFF. Trump’s voluntary plan also covered only one form of each dosage and insulin type. 

Biden points to the Inflation Reduction Act’s mandatory $35 insulin cap as a major achievement. This cap applies to all Medicare prescription plans. It also expanded the cap to all covered insulin types and dosages. Although Trump’s model was a start, it did not have the sweeping reach that Biden’s mandatory cap achieved. 

Foreign policy and terrorism

Biden: "I’m the only president this century that doesn't have any, this decade, that doesn’t have any troops dying anywhere in the world like he did."

False . Some U.S. service members have died in combat abroad during Biden’s presidency.

In August 2021, 13 U.S. service members   were killed   in an attack as the U.S. withdrew from Afghanistan under Biden’s administration. No U.S. service member deaths were reported in 2022, Defense Department   data   shows. Full government data for U.S. active duty military deaths is not available for 2023 or 2024. This January, three U.S. soldiers   were killed   in a drone strike in Jordan.

During Trump’s presidency, from January 2017 to January 2020, 65 U.S. service members were killed in combat, Defense Department   data   shows.

Trump: "We had no terror (attacks) under my administration."

False . During Trump’s presidency, there were several major terror attacks, some linked to extreme global jihadist ideology. 

In 2017, there were   two   separate   attacks in New York City, which Trump himself   acknowledged   as "terrorist attacks" during his 2018 State of the Union address.

There was also a   December 2019 mass shooting   by a member of Saudi Arabia’s air force who was studying at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida. Three U.S. service members were killed and eight were wounded by the gunman, who had   expressed   anti-American and anti-Israel sentiments on social media. Trump’s Attorney General William Barr   described   the shooting as "an act of terrorism."

Trump’s Justice Department also   prosecuted   several   cases of domestic terrorism.

Excluding unsuccessful attacks and those for which officials doubt motive, there were   220 terror incidents   in the United States of varying severity during Trump’s presidency from 2017 to 2020, according to the Global Terrorism Database at the University of Maryland, which tracks incidents of terrorism.

Election denial and Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol

Trump: Regarding the 2020 election, "the fraud and everything else was ridiculous."

False . There is some fraud in every election, but it was not enough to change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. And some fraudulently cast ballots involved defendants   who were either registered Republicans or said that they supported Trump .

Federal and state officials , including   Republicans in Georgia , said the 2020 election was legitimate. Trump’s own attorney general, William Barr, said that he had not seen fraud on a scale that would invalidate Joe Biden’s victory. 

As Trump faced reelection in 2020, he said   Biden could win only   if the election was rigged. Numerous investigations, court cases and reviews yielded   no evidence   of widespread rigging in the 2020 presidential election.

Elections are administered in thousands of local areas nationwide, each with safeguards, making any attempt to "rig" a national election highly improbable.

Trump: Pelosi said "I take full responsibility for Jan. 6."

False . That’s not what former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said.

In a   41-second video   taken on Jan. 6, 2021, Pelosi said, "I take responsibility for not having them just prepare for more," referring to U.S. Capitol security. She did not say she took responsibility for the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack.

Records show that Pelosi approved a Jan. 6, 2021, request to seek support from the National Guard and pushed to get National Guard troops to the U.S. Capitol when their deployment was delayed by hours that day.

Worst president rankings

Biden: Presidential historians "voted who was the worst president in American history. From best to worst. They said (Trump) was the worst in all of American history."

True . The 2024 Presidential Greatness Project Expert Survey, released in February, collected responses from 154 presidential historians, which included current and recent members of the American Political Science Association. The survey ranked Biden as the 14th best president in U.S. history, and put Trump last.

The historians were asked to give every president a score, from zero to 100. Abraham Lincoln topped the list with an average score of 95, while Biden scored an average of 62.66. Trump averaged just under 11 points.

The golf moment

Somehow the presidential debate turned into a fight over who’s the better golfer. Biden said he would have a driving competition with Trump and claimed he was a 6 handicap while serving as vice president.

Trump scoffed. "He can hit a ball 50 yards."

Joe Biden is currently listed with the United States Golf Association as holding a 6.7 handicap playing out of Fieldstone Golf Club in Delaware. Biden hasn’t logged a score in the system since 2018. Scores are typically self-reported, and a handicap comes from an average of the lowest 8 of the most recent 20 posted scores.

The lower the handicap you have, the better golfer you are. Ivanka Trump, for instance, is a 20.9 handicap and Eric Trump is listed as a 13.6 (without a round since 2015). Donald Trump is in the system as a member of the prestigious Winged Foot Golf Club in New York. He lists a handicap of 2.5 but hasn’t posted a score since 2021.

PolitiFact PolitiFact Executive Director Aaron Sharockman, Chief Correspondent Louis Jacobson, Senior Correspondent Amy Sherman, Staff Writers Grace Abels, Kwasi Gyamfi Asiedu, Maria Briceño, Jeff Cercone, Madison Czopek, Marta Campabadal Graus, Ranjan Jindal, Mia Penner, Samantha Putterman, Sara Swann, Maria Ramirez Uribe, Researcher Caryn Baird, KFF Health News Senior Correspondent Julie Appleby and KFF Health News Mountain States Editor Matt
Volz​ contributed to this story. 

Our debate fact-checks rely on both new and previously reported work. We link to past work whenever possible. In some cases, a fact-check rating may be different tonight than in past versions. In those cases, either details of what the candidate said, or how the candidate said it, differed enough that we evaluated it anew. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.10  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.9    5 days ago

They've got 16 of Trump's statements labeled with the word "false"  and 3 of Biden's.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.11  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.9    5 days ago

I can go through that BS later. Politifact carries water for the left.

Here is what the moron managed to say:

No troops have died

What Biden said:  “I’m the only president this century that doesn’t have any — this decade — that doesn’t have any troops dying anywhere in the world, like [Trump] did.”

We beat Medicare

What Biden said:  ‘We finally beat Medicare.”

Fact:  Huh? It’s unclear if even the octogenarian president knew what he meant here, but the obvious verbal blunder occurred after he froze discussing his record on the economy.

Trump, 78, sarcastically responded: “He did beat Medicare. He beat it to death.”

Endorsed by Border Patrol

What Biden said:  The US Border Patrol union “endorsed me, endorsed my position.”

Truth:  The National Border Patrol Council  refuted Biden’s claim  — mid-debate. “To be clear, we never have and never will endorse Biden,” the union  posted on X.

Which accord?

What Biden said:  “[Trump] pulled out of the Paris Peace Accords, uh, Climate Accord.”

Fact:  The president confused the Paris Climate Accords, the YEAR international pact aimed at tackling climate change, with the Paris Peace Accords that marked the end of the Vietnam War in 1973.

Black unemployment

What Biden said:  “Black unemployment is the lowest level it’s been in a long, long time.”

Truth:   In April 2023 under Biden, black unemployment hit a record low of 4.8%, beating a previous low of 5.3% reached under Trump in 2019.

However, the rate last month was 6.1 %.

Social Security

What Biden said:   “[Trump] wants to get rid of Social Security. … He’s wanted to cut Social Security and Medicare.”

Truth:  The  ex-president   has repeatedly said  he wants to  protect Medicare and Social Security .

Taxing the rich

What Biden said:  “We have a thousand millionaires in America, I mean billionaires. And what’s happening? They’re in a situation where they in fact pay 8.2% taxes.”

Truth:  The top 1% of taxpayers (income of at least $548,000) paid an average tax rate of nearly 26% in 2020, while the top 0.001% — 1,475 taxpayers with at least $77 million in adjusted gross income – paid 23.7%, according to IRS data  cited by the Washington Post.

Trump’s unemployment rate

What Biden said:  “[The] unemployment rate rose to 15% [under Trump];  it was terrible.”

Fact:  The unemployment rate was 6.4% when Trump left the White House in 2021. Unemployment rose from 4.4% in March 2020 at the beginning of the pandemic to 14.8% in April 2020. The unprecedented global outbreak wreaked economic havoc worldwide.

Border crossings

What Biden said:  “I’ve changed in a way that now you’re in a situation where there are 40% fewer people coming across the border illegally. That’s better than when [Trump] left office.”

Truth:  He’s confusing data. The daily average of migrant apprehensions dropped more than 40% — to nearly 2,400 — since Biden issued an executive action that went into effect a month ago prohibiting asylum at the southern border.

Drug prices

What Biden said:  “We brought down the price of prescription drugs … to $15 for an insulin shot as opposed to $400. No senior has to pay more than $200 for any drug … beginning next year.”

Truth:  Under the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act that Biden signed into law, Medicare enrollees must still pay up to $35 monthly, and seniors and disabled people must fork over as much as more $2,000 yearly out-of-pocket starting in 2025.

Fact check: Biden's horrific debate performance made worse by multiple lies and gaffes (nypost.com)

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.10    5 days ago
They've got 16 of Trump's statements labeled with the word "false"  and 3 of Biden's.

Obviously, they lied

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.12    5 days ago

not at all.

its hilarious that you see Politifact as biased but not the NY Post. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.13    5 days ago

I intend to go through that politifact article later, item by item.

I already see things they are calling false as factual, starting with him saying he is willing to take responsibility for the protest getting out of hand on Jan 6th.

Have a good night.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2.16  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.15    5 days ago
I already see things they are calling false as factual, starting with him saying he is willing to take responsibility for the protest getting out of hand on Jan 6th.

whatever that means. i dont see that in the article

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.17  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.15    5 days ago

The 'protest getting out of hand'

wow

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
4.2.18  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2    5 days ago
Biden came to national prominence because he was such a prolific liar. 

Even in his letter to democrats Biden continued to push his lies:

1. Trump Will Bend to the Will of Oil Donors Upon Receiving Substantial Campaign Donations

The New York Times   reported   that in May, two attendees at an energy round table campaign event held at Mar-a-Lago heard the former president promise that his policies would benefit oil companies. 

There is not, however, proof that Trump will “do whatever they [the companies] want,” as Biden proposed in his letter. 

2. Trump Plans to Cut Social Security and Medicare Benefits

Trump has repeatedly affirmed that he has no plans to cut Social Security or Medicare benefits for Americans. 

The Biden campaign has consistently peddled this lie, going back to March of this year. 

3. The Biden Administration Is Currently Lowering Costs for Americans

The president claimed that his policies are actively “lowering costs for families — from health care to prescription drugs to student debt to housing.” 

In reality, Biden’s policies have resulted in cumulative inflation of   20 percent   and prices that are rising more quickly than Americans’ incomes. Biden hasn’t “lower[ed] costs for families.” Rather, “grocery prices have increased by nearly one-third and gas has risen by 50 percent,” and “it now costs the average American family $12,000 more to maintain the same living standards as before Biden took office.”  

Inflation reached a peak of  9.1 percent  in June 2022, almost halfway through Biden’s term. Even with inflation slowly decreasing, hitting just over 3 percent in May, prices are still sky-high. The cumulative 20 percent inflation figure represents the overall increase in inflation since the president’s inauguration, with pre-Biden era inflation ringing in at  1.4 percent , below the Federal Reserve’s goal of 2 percent.

 
 
 
Thomas
Masters Guide
4.2.19  Thomas  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.4    3 days ago
the woman who just might be the nation's single best reporter, Miranda Devine told us in a New York Post story,

Richard has an unholy crush on her, probably because her lies and distortions are comparable.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.2.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.2    3 days ago
Trump lied 6 times as much as Biden in the debate.  


Damn media, as represented by Fact Check, didn’t find a 6X difference.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
5  Nerm_L    6 days ago

The best laid plans of rogues, rascals, liars, and election cheats have been toppled by another public disclosure.  Amazing what just a little light can do. 

It was obvious that Joe Biden was going to continue his 2020 campaign all the way through to the 2024 reelection.  But even back then the Biden camp had to maintain a clean up crew because Biden would make a mess of things.  Yes, the Democrats strategy all along was to make 2024 a referendum on Trump.  

And the Democrats' chosen one screwed the pooch, hard, on live TV.  Even the split screen intended to show an uncouth, rude, and abusive Donald Trump backfired.  Biden had been prepped to goad Trump by attacking his appearance, personality, and character but Trump didn't follow the script.  Biden was completely unprepared to defend his record.  

So, the public had an opportunity to see the real Joe Biden flailing around trying to deflect attention from himself during the most important American holiday.  (Shades of the fall of Kabul.  Biden still hasn't gotten his victory parade.)   And now the public will be treated to an 81 year old President hosting the 75th anniversary celebration of NATO while a war rages in Europe.  Are we only going to see a lot of grip 'n grin shots from a distance without any interviews?  During an election year?  When Biden wants to brag about NATO?  And European NATO is worried about being stuck holding the Ukrainian bag?

Good luck, Joe!  Enjoy the neurological and cognitive tests that are obviously in your future.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @5    6 days ago

Perfect!

I guess that's why neither Bret Baier nor Shannon Bream can book any Biden surrogates as guests.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6  author  Vic Eldred    6 days ago

Talk of hypocrisy & projection:

Kamala Harris claims this will be "the most significant election of our lifetime" because one side might "weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies"

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
6.1  Snuffy  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    6 days ago

I don't feel like researching it, but just how many cycles now have we heard that line about the upcoming election is the most significant election of our lifetime? Seems to be a standard line that gets rolled out each cycle. Someone should read Washington the story about the boy who cried wolf.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Snuffy @6.1    6 days ago

I'm going to say 3, which would be two Presidential elections and one mid-term election.

Only one deserved the tittle:

The most significant election was held in 2020, and the pandemic had a lot to do with the outcome.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
6.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    5 days ago
because one side might "weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies"

"might weaponize the DOJ".  Does she not have any idea what is going on around her?  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.2    5 days ago

It seems the very people who weaponized & politicized the government are now afraid that Republicans will do likewise.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
6.2.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.1    5 days ago

The problem is they don't understand what they are doing.  They've set a lot of precedents that will come back and bite them in the ass.  And all for fear on ONE person.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.2.2    5 days ago

I think they should be held accountable.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
6.2.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.3    5 days ago

Like I said, the precedents they set will come back and bit them in the ass.  And it's expected they will whine and cry about being held accountable for setting those precedents. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.2.4    5 days ago

One can only hope. In the meantime, they are screaming he is seeking revenge!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
6.2.6  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.5    5 days ago

He's following the precedents THEY set.  They did it to themselves.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @6.2.6    5 days ago

Correct.

When it happens the media will just keep going with "revenge" and "dictator."

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Principal
6.2.8  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.7    5 days ago

Without a doubt.  

 
 

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