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Megachurch pastor and former Trump spiritual adviser admits sexual abuse | US news | The Guardian

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  evilone  •  4 weeks ago  •  199 comments

By:   Pastor Robert Morris (the Guardian)

Megachurch pastor and former Trump spiritual adviser admits sexual abuse | US news | The Guardian
Robert Morris responds to claim by Oklahoma woman that he sexually abused her in 1980s when she was aged 12 to 16

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Robert Morris responds to claim by Oklahoma woman that he sexually abused her in 1980s when she was aged 12 to 16

A Texas evangelical pastor and former spiritual adviser to Donald Trump has confessed to sexually assaulting a young girl in his past.

Robert Morris, a founding pastor of Dallas-based Gateway megachurch, was accused by an Oklahoma woman of sexual abuse in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12 and continuing until the age of 16.

Morris confirmed the allegations to a religious publication, the Christian Post.

In a statement to the Christian Post, Morris said: "When I was in my early 20s, I was involved in inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady in a home where I was staying."

In her own statement to the Christian Post, the victim of the assault said she was "appalled" at the description of her as a "young lady" and said the repeated abuse had taken decades for her to process. She said her family had threatened Morris with the police and later considered filing a lawsuit.

Other churches where Morris has ministered, such as Shady Grove church in Grand Prairie, were allegedly aware of his abusive history, but Morris told the Christian Post he received counseling and had since "walked in purity and accountability in this area".

Shady Grove church became the Gateway church's Grand Prairie campus in 2013.

Morris told the Christian Post: "In March of 1987, this situation was brought to light, and it was confessed and repented of. I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady's father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did."

Despite his admission, Morris will continue to be a primary speaker at the church on weekends and his son, James Morris, will assume his father's senior pastor duties next year.

Morris was never criminally charged and by the time his accuser decided to explore legal action, she was advised the statute of limitations for criminal or civil action had probably expired.

3648.jpg?width=445&dpr=1&s=none View image in fullscreenDonald Trump is flanked by Pastor Robert Morris, left, and the Gateway church bishop Harry Jackson during a round table in Dallas, Texas, in 2020.

In a statement to the local Dallas news outlet WFAA, Gateway church said the "35-year-old matter" had been resolved: "Pastor Robert has been open and forthright about a moral failure he had over 35 years ago when he was in his 20s and prior to him starting Gateway church. He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper Biblical steps he took in his lengthy restoration process.

"The two-year restoration process was closely administered by the Elders at Shady Grove Church and included him stepping out of the ministry during that period while receiving professional counseling and freedom ministry counseling. Since the resolution of the 35-year-old matter, there have been no other moral failures."

Morris's accuser said while she had forgiven him for the sexual abuse, she did not believe he should have returned to ministry.

Morris was appointed to Trump's evangelical advisory board for his 2016 presidential campaign.

And in a 2020 roundtable discussion with faith leaders in Texas, then-president Trump thanked two pastors, one of whom was Morris, for attending the event.

"They're great people. Great people with a great reputation. I have to say that," Trump said. "Great reputation. And Gateway church - the team has been incredible in hosting us."


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evilone
Professor Guide
1  seeder  evilone    4 weeks ago
Robert Morris, a founding pastor of Dallas-based Gateway megachurch, was accused by an Oklahoma woman of sexual abuse in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12 and continuing until the age of 16.

The alt+right populists keep talking about LGBTQ+ and liberal teachers as predators when the real problem is their own.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1  Tessylo  replied to  evilone @1    4 weeks ago

That's always been the case.  Projection.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @1.1    4 weeks ago

he was just trying to be fruitful and multiply, and forgot to check her ID...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

a youthful indiscretion

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

as a devout male in his 20's, he discovered his intellectual equal in her, and then got caught...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2  devangelical  replied to  evilone @1    4 weeks ago

another thumper pedophile... shocking... /s

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2  1stwarrior    4 weeks ago

So, what's this got to do with Trump - in, maybe, the 1980's???

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.1  seeder  evilone  replied to  1stwarrior @2    4 weeks ago
So, what's this got to do with Trump

This is Trump's religious advisor. One of those "only the best people" Trump surrounds himself with. 

...in, maybe, the 1980's???

The law might put a statute of limitations on pedophilia, but are you going to? For someone who advises the ex & possible future President? 

Sexual assault seems to be okay for the MAGA faithful...except when it comes to the fake outrage of LGBTQA+. Then it's all "Ohhhh the children!"

The hypocrisy is so thick one needs a chainsaw to cut it.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Kavika   replied to  evilone @2.1    4 weeks ago
"The two-year restoration process was closely administered by the Elders at Shady Grove Church and included him stepping out of the ministry during that period while receiving professional counseling and freedom ministry counseling. Since the resolution of the 35-year-old matter, there have been no other moral failures."

First off the name, ''Shady Grove Church'' doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the process. 

''There have been no other moral failures''..I find that hard to believe.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2.1.2  1stwarrior  replied to  evilone @2.1    4 weeks ago

Actually, neither I nor the rest of the world GAS 'bout Trump - nor do we care 'bout Biden.

Just because some stupid shyte gets busted 'cause he can spell Trump or may have actually shaken hands with him or actually saw him on TV - DOES NOT MAKE THEM HIS IDENTICAL TWIN.

If they futch up, why is that Trump's fault?  Better yet, before your parents popped your butt for doing something wrong, did you whine and cry that it wasn't your fault - or, were they just associating your "environment" as being the problem which them makes it your problem?

We (the rest of the U.S.) have had enough Trump BS for the past 8 years and it is now falling into your hands to move on to more important things - and Trump/Biden are not them.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
2.1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.2    4 weeks ago
Actually, neither I nor the rest of the world GAS 'bout Trump - nor do we care 'bout Biden.

You asked, and now you're taking exception to the answer?

We (the rest of the U.S.) have had enough Trump BS for the past 8 years and it is now falling into your hands to move on to more important things - and Trump/Biden are not them.

You don't think the election of the next POTUS is important?

Curious.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.1.4  seeder  evilone  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.2    4 weeks ago
Actually, neither I nor the rest of the world GAS 'bout Trump - nor do we care 'bout Biden.

I assure you many people care about both men, as they are the presumptive party nominees for POTUS.

If they futch up, why is that Trump's fault?

Again Trump used this pedophile as an advisor, but that's only a minor point to the hypocracy the MAGA faithful use to paint others as predators without evidence.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  1stwarrior @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

It's not like he just shook his hand or saw him on TV - HE WAS HIS SPIRTUAL ADVISER

You make no fucking sense

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @2    4 weeks ago

it shows how badly Trump vets or judges character.

The Brooking Institute routinely tracks turnover in every Administration.

To date Bidens A Team turnover is 71% percent, and the Cabinet turnover is only 13%.

Very stable.

Brooking is very generous when it comes to Trump. They list the turnover of the original A Team

at 92% of the original people but they stop counting past the first replacement AND admit that 45% of the positions suffered from serial turnover 4 Chiefs of Staff, 5 Deputy Chiefs of Staff, 6 Communications Directors etc.

 Ditto they avoid listing that 100% of Trumps cabinet picks "of all of the best people" were replaced 

many, many times over.

In the service that would be described as a cluster fuck

Here, his revolving staff failed to find out Morris' background and placed him in an embarrassing position which now rears it's ugliness at an inopportune time.

Way to go A Team /s 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @2.2    4 weeks ago

Reportedly there is no statute of limitations for child abuse in Texas.

But the statute for civil damages has expired.  A 2023 bill to remove the limitations died in committee.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.2    4 weeks ago

Anyone/everyone surrounding #34 is morally reprehensible.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.2    4 weeks ago

Shaquille O'Neil??? ok, Charles Barkley has his faults but MJ?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.2.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @2.2    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.2.5  bugsy  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.2.4    4 weeks ago

removed for context

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.3    4 weeks ago

What?

#34 refers to the number of felonies he's been convicted of.  Convicted felon former 'president' #34 is how I'll be referring to it for awhile.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.7  Split Personality  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.6    4 weeks ago

I know you think it's cute but the #34 is famous in auto racing ( Lotus 34)

but especially for football players 

34 - EARL CAMPBELL, WALTER PAYTON, JOE PERRY, THURMAN THOMAS, Franco Harris

and basket ball players and baseball players and soccer players

Convicted felon former 'president' #34 is how I'll be referring to it for awhile.

and you will probably continue to take the heat for it

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.8  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.7    4 weeks ago

I'm sure that number will increase with time...

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.9  Ozzwald  replied to  Split Personality @2.2    3 weeks ago
it shows how badly Trump vets or judges character.

Trump's entire vetting process is asking the person to kiss his ass.  If he does, he passes, if he doesn't he fails.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.3  devangelical  replied to  1stwarrior @2    4 weeks ago
So, what's this got to do with Trump - in, maybe, the 1980's???

what do you think trump was doing back then?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2.3.1  1stwarrior  replied to  devangelical @2.3    4 weeks ago

Same as he is today - screaming for attention.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.3.2  devangelical  replied to  1stwarrior @2.3.1    4 weeks ago

want to see a picture of ivanka giving her daddy a lap dance? yeah, I didn't think so...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.3.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @2.3    3 weeks ago
what do you think trump was doing back then?

Partying with NYC Dems.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3  Hal A. Lujah    4 weeks ago

Has this [] learned nothing from his master? Just lie, then lie about the evidence, then lie about your lies, then call your victim a liar, then dox everyone involved and namelessly put a hit out on them, then go sell some bibles.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1  seeder  evilone  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    4 weeks ago
Just lie, then lie about the evidence, then lie about your lies, then call your victim a liar, then dox everyone involved and namelessly put a hit out on them, then go sell some bibles.

Look, he said he was sorry so that makes it all better, right? /s

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.1  devangelical  replied to  evilone @3.1    4 weeks ago

a few years back I got a call from a cousin to prep me for a visit by him and one of his old college buddies he was bringing over for a fishing trip, because of my family reputation of mocking the stupidity of organized religion. his friend was the IT guy for a dallas mega church and had discovered his spiritual leader was leading a double life with another woman and it caused him to have a crisis of faith. he had resigned his position and in his exit interview with the pastor, the pastor had tried to justify his extracurricular activities with the old testament. failing to convince the IT guy to overlook his indiscretion, an NDA and the church checkbook came out and both were refused. when I met the guy it was obvious by his demeanor he was morally crushed and I had to bite my tongue to keep from ridiculing the gullible thumper. the good news is that the pastor was discovered and my cousin has since become a 1 man army in harassing hypocritical pastors on FB. he's still very religious, but at least he's relentlessly going after all the fake xtians that are only in it for the money.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
3.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  devangelical @3.1.1    4 weeks ago
I had to bite my tongue to keep from ridiculing the gullible thumper.

Your restraint is admirable.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.3  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.2    4 weeks ago

I try to cut some blood relatives a little slack, and in return, they don't discuss religion in my presence. I'm usually the guy that loads his plate while the rest of the holiday table is bowing their heads, holding hands, and thanking their imaginary friend for the convenience of a grocery store. I'm proud of turning the ex's half of the family into recovering catholics though. it only took me 50+ years...

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.1.4  1stwarrior  replied to  devangelical @3.1.1    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

Another irrelevant nothing burger. You're throwing a lot of fantasy punches, but none are landing.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1  Kavika   replied to  Greg Jones @4    4 weeks ago
Another irrelevant nothing burger. You're throwing a lot of fantasy punches, but none are landing.

Seems you know little about the sweet science, Greg.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Kavika @4.1    4 weeks ago

You have to admit this attempt to associate Trump with this guy is about as tenuous and flimsy as it gets.

Like I said, none of spaghetti is sticking to the wall. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.1    4 weeks ago
this attempt to associate Trump with this guy is about as tenuous and flimsy as it gets

from the article -

Morris was appointed to Trump's evangelical advisory board for his 2016 presidential campaign.
 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @4    4 weeks ago

Raping a 12 year old for four years is a nothing burger?

A presidential A Team that doesn't vet the people he's sitting beside at an event?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.1  George  replied to  Split Personality @4.2    4 weeks ago
Raping a 12 year old for four years is a nothing burger?

it appears to get you nominated as the democrat candidate for president.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  George @4.2.1    4 weeks ago

appears to get you nominated as the democrat candidate for president.

talk about walking into one.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  George @4.2.1    4 weeks ago

The former 'president' #34 is known for raping 12 year old girls

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.4  Split Personality  replied to  George @4.2.1    4 weeks ago

Where is your proof?  Evidence? Witnesses ?

Mr. Morris's victim has been quite vocal and specific about the preachers "petting" and "rape by instrumentation".

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.5  Split Personality  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.2    4 weeks ago

Another swing and a miss...

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.6  George  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Ashley Biden’s diary that nobody disputes is real. You do believe the victim when they make the accusation right?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.7  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

Ashley Biden's diary does not even remotely claim that Biden raped her.   Good grief George, you have been harping on this since the diary was discovered and keep with this rape crap regardless of the facts.

Do you think extreme hyperbole like you are pushing will convince anyone?   So why do it?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.2.8  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.3    4 weeks ago

Prove it...........you can't

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.2.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.2.8    4 weeks ago

Do you hold your pals to the same standard?

For example, you upvoted George's false allegation about Biden raping his daughter.  Did George prove it?  Can George prove it?

No.

But you upvote him, and want Tessy to provide proof.

Blatant partisanship.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.9    4 weeks ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.2.11  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.9    4 weeks ago

Trump accusation doesn't have a smoking diary to refer to.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.2.12  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.2.11    4 weeks ago

Neither does the Biden accusation.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.2.13  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.12    4 weeks ago

Yes it does. Did daddy shower with her or not?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.2.14  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.2.13    4 weeks ago

Here is what Ashley Biden herself has said about it:

“I will forever have to deal with the fact that my personal journal can be viewed online,” Biden wrote. “Repeatedly, I hear others grossly misinterpret my once-private writings and lob false accusations that defame my character and those of the people I love.”

And nowhere in her diary does she say her father raped her.  That is a false statement, and you upvoted it.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.2.15  Just Jim NC TttH  impassed  sandy-2021492 @4.2.14    4 weeks ago
✋🏼
 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2.16  devangelical  replied to  George @4.2.1    4 weeks ago
it appears to get you nominated as the democrat candidate for president.

no harm, no foul for the most pious on the right though...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4.2.17  Greg Jones  replied to  Split Personality @4.2    4 weeks ago

Does this mean investigating everyone he meets or associates with going back 40 years? 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.18  George  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.9    4 weeks ago
George's false allegation about Biden raping his daughter.

So what do you think Sandy? When Ashley wrote that her grown father was taking inappropriate showers with her when she was a teenager nothing happened? It was just a grown man innocently taking showers. Do you really defend that? 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2.19  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @4.2    4 weeks ago
Raping a 12 year old for four years is a nothing burger?

SOP for southern thumpers...

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.20  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.9    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.21  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.18    4 weeks ago

What I think is that Ashley wrote that she had showered with her dad.

She did not write that she and her dad had sex or were even intimate (or that they were nude).

She certainly did not write that her dad forced himself on her or actively seduced her.

She absolutely did not write that her dad raped her.

And to this day, she has made no such claim.

You are engaging in extreme exaggeration based on a sentence in a diary.   You take one sentence and blow it out of proportion and then repeatedly claim that your extreme exaggeration is fact.

Why?   When people make such extreme exaggerations they tarnish the credibility of every other comment they make.   So why do it?   Do you think that people will simply believe your claim because you penned it in a comment?

Just amazing.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2.22  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.21    4 weeks ago
Just amazing.

as is anything found in the alt-tight media for consumption by the true believers...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.23  Right Down the Center  replied to  George @4.2.18    4 weeks ago
So what do you think Sandy? When Ashley wrote that her grown father was taking inappropriate showers with her when she was a teenager nothing happened? It was just a grown man innocently taking showers. Do you really defend that? 

Many on the left will defend Joe saying it was innocent.  Funny how Ashley knew it was inappropriate but Joe didn't.  

But the defenders of Joe might be right.  Maybe there was a water shortage.  S/

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.24  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.23    4 weeks ago
Many on the left will defend Joe saying it was innocent. 

Rational, objective minds will stick with the facts and not impose layer upon layer of hyperbole and claim their invention to be fact.

Do you agree with George's claim that Biden raped his daughter?   Do you support such hyperbole or do you stick with the facts?

I expect deflection in response.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.25  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.21    4 weeks ago
(or that they were nude).

Yes because it is well known that to take a shower with your teenage daughter, you must be fully clothed s/

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.26  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.2.25    4 weeks ago

Do you claim that Biden raped his daughter?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.27  CB  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.7    4 weeks ago

I don't think even Donald has gone that far out on a limb in his broadcasting of negative messaging about Biden.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.28  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.24    4 weeks ago

Rational, objective minds will agree that Joe taking a shower with his daughter was inappropriate  because his daughter though it was "most likely inappropriate" no matter what did or did not happen.

But thanks for your opinion, as predictable as it was.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.29  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.26    4 weeks ago

Do you claim Joe did nothing inappropriate?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.30  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.28    4 weeks ago

Yes showering with your daughter would be inappropriate unless it was a shower with swimsuits at a pool or the beach.   But that is where the facts stop.

You of course deflected and did not answer my question (as predicted):

TiG@4.2.24Do you agree with George's claim that Biden raped his daughter?   Do you support such hyperbole or do you stick with the facts?
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.31  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.29    4 weeks ago

No I made no such claim.   It would be highly inappropriate in my mind for a father to literally take a nude shower with a daughter at an age where she could remember the event.   

I have responded to the absurd exaggerations that this one sentence reference to a shower in a diary means he raped his daughter.   I have also asked a question:

TiG@4.2.24 ☞ Do you agree with George's claim that Biden raped his daughter?   Do you support such hyperbole or do you stick with the facts?
 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.32  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.30    4 weeks ago
You of course deflected and did not answer my question (as predicted):

I don't answer every question posed to me, especially ones I consider not worth my time.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.33  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.31    4 weeks ago
I have responded to the absurd exaggerations that this means he raped his daughter. 

I don't answer every question posed to me, especially ones I consider not worth my time.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.34  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.32    4 weeks ago

You have tacitly admitted that you agree with George that based on what is known, Biden raped his daughter.   

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.35  seeder  evilone  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.28    4 weeks ago

Why are you working so hard to distract from the subject of the article? Is pedophilias wrong or not? Is it wrong for the MAGA faithful to ignore actual child predators and attack LGBTQA+ people as predators, or groomers, as a whole group?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.36  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.34    4 weeks ago

Nope. But you attempted spin is totally predictable. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4.2.37  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.26    4 weeks ago

That's what the left has said about Trump

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.38  Right Down the Center  replied to  evilone @4.2.35    4 weeks ago

I responded to a comment. I thought that was allowable. I hope you mention this when someone brings up trump when the article is not about him. It happens in the majority of articles. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.39  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @4.2.37    4 weeks ago

Where has 'the left' claimed that Trump raped his daughter?    Sure someone on 'the left' could make that ridiculous claim, but I do not see this as a claim from 'the left'.   An example claim from the 'the left' about Trump is that he is a malignant narcissist.   

Do you hold that Biden raped his daughter?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.40  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.36    4 weeks ago
Nope.

Are we to interpret this as you disagree with George and do not hold that Biden raped his daughter?

Remain vague to avoid having your 'argument' ripped to shreds.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.41  CB  replied to  George @4.2.18    4 weeks ago

You know, George, there is forming an opinion and there is jumping to conclusion. From what I have lightly read about this, Ashley Biden, what you would call the victim here is not even stating what you are putting out and spreading. That is your first clue that you are taking this where it should not go. Then, you double down with being indulgent by spamming this site with an offense you derive without any corroboration from those involved.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2.42  Sean Treacy  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.39    4 weeks ago

Where has 'the left' claimed that Trump raped his daughter?

it was repeated on an almost daily basis here for a while.  Somehow, I don’t recall you objecting.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.43  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.40    4 weeks ago

I thought you were big on going with facts. What fact do you have that I think biden raped anyone? Seems more like in lieu of facts you will just assume what you want. That is also predictable. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.44  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.43    4 weeks ago
What fact do you have that I think biden raped anyone?

Your refusal to answer my question.   

You have written many words now trying to avoid the question when the answer is a simple yes or no (and optional qualification).

The fact that you continue to refuse to answer the question is a tacit admission that you agree with George's hyperbole.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.45  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.42    4 weeks ago
 Somehow, I don’t recall you objecting.

Oh, you do not recall?   How special.

If someone wrote that and I was involved I would object as I am doing right here.   That is ridiculous (i.e. not supported by the facts).

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.46  George  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.42    4 weeks ago
it was repeated on an almost daily basis here for a while.

Without a shred of proof, Here we have a diary where she clearly says her father took inappropriate showers with her and she became highly sexualized. Afte multiple years as a prosecuting attorney i can safely say, NO GROWN MAN TAKES INNOCENT SHOWERS WITH HIS TEENAGE DAUGHTER.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.47  seeder  evilone  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.38    4 weeks ago

So... you continue with the distraction instead of a straightforward answer.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.48  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.44    4 weeks ago

Still nope, just like the last time you made the bogus accusation.  A refusal to answer a question is not a fact of anything other than a refusal to answer a question. The rest is all making stuff up.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.49  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.46    4 weeks ago
NO GROWN MAN TAKES INNOCENT SHOWERS WITH HIS TEENAGE DAUGHTER

From:  "showers w/ my dad (probably not appropriate)"

To:  Biden raped his daughter

Get a grip.

If she was speaking of sex with her dad, then (at the very least) the word 'probably' would not even be there.   "Sex with dad, inappropriate" would be more likely.    And as your ridiculous exaggerations expand up to rape, you continue to violate the matter-of-fact tone of the sentence.

To accuse a father of raping his daughter, 'counselor', I would expect you to have at least some evidence showing that sex took place.   You have nothing but an ancient, vague excerpt from a diary with no claims of sex / rape. 

Your imagination and exaggeration do not count as evidence, 'counselor'.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.50  George  replied to  evilone @4.2.35    4 weeks ago
Is pedophilias wrong or not?

Yes, it is absolutely wrong and should never be tolerated or defended, so why are people defending Joe Biden? Since you are so keen on direct answers how about one? Do you think that Joe Biden took innocent showers with his teenage daughter?

Is it wrong for the MAGA faithful to ignore actual child predators

Don't limit it to MAGA, it is wrong for anyone to ignore child predators, and we shouldn't limit our outrage by who did it, everyone in Epstein's book needs to be prosecuted PERIOD!!! trump or clinton, i don't care. If they are in the book they need to be charged.

This leads to another question, over 1250 Jan 6 protestors have been charged, which is a good thing, how many of the people who raped little girls and maybe boys with Epstein have been charged?

and attack LGBTQA+ people as predators, or groomers, as a whole group?

Again, anybody doing this is doing it out of ignorance, period! if you don't like gay marriage, just say no when a gay person asks you to marry them, problem solved. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.51  George  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.49    4 weeks ago

And your denial of experience and practical dealings with victims of incest equal less than nothing, defend bidens pedophilia all you want, it won't change the facts of the case, and people that hold the opinion you are posting in your comments are the reason why rape victims don't come forward more. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.52  George  replied to  George @4.2.51    4 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.53  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.26    4 weeks ago
Do you claim that Biden raped his daughter?

Where in ANY of my posts do you believe I said anything that you are trying to falsly argue, ie, made up things you think I said?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.54  seeder  evilone  replied to  George @4.2.50    4 weeks ago
Yes, it is absolutely wrong and should never be tolerated or defended, so why are people defending Joe Biden?

First, I've not commented on Biden because this article isn't about Joe. Second, I have no evidence Joe Biden committed pedophilia. 

Don't limit it to MAGA, it is wrong for anyone to ignore child predators, and we shouldn't limit our outrage by who did it, everyone in Epstein's book needs to be prosecuted PERIOD!!! trump or clinton, i don't care. If they are in the book they need to be charged.

I concur.

This leads to another question, over 1250 Jan 6 protestors have been charged, which is a good thing, how many of the people who raped little girls and maybe boys with Epstein have been charged?

One thing doesn't not equate to the other. Also has anyone but one women who accused Prince Andrew come forward? I'm pretty sure he's not going to be charged in US Courts. He won't face legal judgement, but at least he's been relegated to creepy uncle who won't leave the house. If someone else comes forward we can deal with that then. Until then lets deal with what's in front of us.

Again, anybody doing this is doing it out of ignorance, period! if you don't like gay marriage, just say no when a gay person asks you to marry them, problem solved. 

It isn't solved when people like Morris can go in front of mega-churches with thousands of congregants and preach hate. It isn't solved when people like Morris can advise Presidents. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.55  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.51    4 weeks ago

You can claim all the experience you want (on a social media forum under the moniker of 'George') but that does not mean a damn thing.   It is not evidence.

To claim with certainty that Biden raped his daughter requires more than a single sentence in a diary that stated it was PROBABLY inappropriate to shower w/ Dad.   A little common sense should tell you that a woman recalling a rape by her father would not describe it as a probably inappropriate shower w/ Dad.    The word "inappropriate" does not come close to describing rape ... especially when softened with "probably".

Your claims of experience are contradicted by your failure to consider the actual language used in the single sentence upon which you build your hyperbolic claim of rape.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.56  George  replied to  evilone @4.2.54    4 weeks ago

There will always be idiots who follow other idiots, That is the problem with the first amendment, it protects even those we disagree with, in fact that is the whole point of the first amendment. to protect those we don't agree with. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.57  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.2.53    4 weeks ago

You implied that you support George's claim that Biden raped his daughter with your sarcastic quip.

So I am asking you to be clear.   Do you claim that Biden raped his daughter or not?

And, of course, you will deflect.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.58  George  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.55    4 weeks ago
inappropriate to shower w/ Dad. 

Why are you changing this, i thought you believed in "facts" it wasn't shower! it was showers TiG, the plural or multiple of shower. 

You never answered the question TiG! you demand others to answer your questions, Do you TiG think Joe Biden took multiple innocent showers (plural) ie more than one with his teenage daughter and nothing happened other than good clean fun? is that what your years of experience tells you TiG?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.59  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.57    4 weeks ago
You implied that you support George's claim that Biden raped his daughter with your sarcastic quip.

Show EXACTLY where you imagined I did.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.60  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.57    4 weeks ago
And, of course, you will deflect.

Why should I with something I never said?

In addition, the posters above are correct.

You have said repeatedly that you do not opine on questions in which you do not feel important, so by asking the same question over and over again, demanding they answer or accuse of deflecting, you are again harassing posters. They are simply going by your own rule.

Maybe you should move on....

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.61  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.55    4 weeks ago

What is bad as child abuse? False accusations of child abuse!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.62  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.58    4 weeks ago
Why are you changing this, i thought you believed in "facts" it wasn't shower! it was showers TiG, the plural or multiple of shower. 

That was not intentional.  Yes it was showers, plural.  You are grasping at straws.   My comment applies unchanged.

Do you TiG think Joe Biden took multiple innocent showers (plural) ie more than one with his teenage daughter and nothing happened other than good clean fun? is that what your years of experience tells you TiG?.

I am not going to extrapolate beyond what we have:   Ashley claimed to take showers with her Dad and that they were probably inappropriate.   None of us know the specifics.   

My position is that it is inappropriate for a father to take a fully nude shower with his daughter if she is of an age where she could remember it (basically 2+ years of age).   

So to me it is not probably inappropriate, but rather is definitely inappropriate.  

But there is no evidence that justifies your extreme hyperbolic claim that Biden raped his daughter.   Your claim of certainty is based on a claim of showers, that were described as "probably inappropriate".

Claiming Biden raped his daughter based on that one excerpt (and your vast experience) is absurd.   Attempt to make that case, 'counselor', and you will be (appropriately) laughed out of court.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.63  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.2.60    4 weeks ago

Deflection, as predicted.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.64  CB  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.44    4 weeks ago

That is the kind of answer from a member (you are engaging right now) that is literally hurting this site. We go round and round, up and down, back and forth, and never leave the starting block with these same intransigent members. People who will defend their narrative, but won't take a stand for truth and/or reconciliation.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.65  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.63    4 weeks ago

Again, you cannot show what you claimed

[removed][]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.66  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.62    4 weeks ago

Families used to be way less modest at home. In my parents childhood the whole family shared a kitchen tub. Before air-conditioning mom's parents lounged around the farmhouse on hot summer nights with him in tighty whities and her in granny panties and bra. They had one bathroom then and would brush their teeth or use the toilet while I was in the tub. We weren't like that in our home so my grandparents made fun of my modesty. Sometimes they lined us kids up and scrubbed us all down in the tub after fishing of when we got back from the ranch. That was NOT RAPE!

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.67  seeder  evilone  replied to  George @4.2.56    4 weeks ago
There will always be idiots who follow other idiots, That is the problem with the first amendment, it protects even those we disagree with, in fact that is the whole point of the first amendment. to protect those we don't agree with. 

Sure, you can use the 1st Amendment to shield hypocrites who protect podophiles. I'll use my rights to call them out.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.68  George  replied to  JBB @4.2.66    4 weeks ago

This was the 90's when Joe was a Senator, not exactly grandpa's farmhouse, your defection was poor.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.69  bugsy  replied to  JBB @4.2.66    4 weeks ago
Families used to be way less modest at home. In my parents childhood the whole family shared a kitchen tub. Before air-conditioning mom's parents lounged around the farmhouse on hot summer nights with him in tighty whities and her in granny panties and bra. They had one bathroom then and would brush their teeth or use the toilet while I was in the tub. We weren't like that in our home so my grandparents made fun of my modesty. Both did sometimes lined us all up and scrubbed us down in the tub after fishing of when we got home from the farm, which was NOT RAPE!

That's all fine and dandy, but nothing like a grown man taking a shower with his daughter that is old enough to remember.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.70  George  replied to  evilone @4.2.67    4 weeks ago

Now you are projecting, I guess we are done when all you have is a personal attack.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.71  George  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.62    4 weeks ago
and you will be (appropriately) laughed out of court.

I've made cases on less because the jurors weren't partisans protecting their chosen candidate, a reasonable person can see this for what it is, a partisan will defend it like a defense attorney with a guilty client.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.72  George  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.63    4 weeks ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.73  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.71    4 weeks ago
I've made cases on less because the jurors weren't partisans protecting their chosen candidate, a reasonable person can see this for what it is, a partisan will defend it like a defense attorney with a guilty client.

My argument has nothing whatsoever to do with politics (much less partisan).   It is clearly based on the evidence and the profound lack of evidence supporting your claim.

No rational, responsible attorney would file charges that Biden raped his daughter based merely on the "probably inappropriate showers" sentence in a diary.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.74  Tessylo  replied to  JBB @4.2.66    4 weeks ago

Not everything is taboo about seeing naked bodies.  

All five of us - I have a picture of one time - of us bathing together - our grandmother thought it was improper but that's not so - it's totally innocent - she was just an old biddy prude - we were all about five years old and under and it's a very cute picture - absolutely nothing indecent about it

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.75  JBB  replied to  bugsy @4.2.69    4 weeks ago

You don't remember either of your parents bathing you?

My dad gave the younger kids a good scrub Saturdays...

I specifically remember when the baby pooped the tub!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.76  JBB  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.74    4 weeks ago

Big families did not have time or tolerance for false modesty back when few homes had more than one tiny bathroom...

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.77  Tessylo  replied to  JBB @4.2.76    4 weeks ago

Plus saving money on hot water by bathing all five at once rather than separately.

No brainer, right?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.78  JBB  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.74    4 weeks ago

Rightwing incels have probably never seen a naked woman! 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.79  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.62    4 weeks ago

Counselor.

lol

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.80  JBB  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.77    4 weeks ago

It was a big chore to bathe all the little kids before church or social events for big families. Sometimes the mother of the father would do it and sometimes even an older sibling...

I was oldest and so I often had to coral the toddlers to bathe.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.81  Split Personality  replied to  JBB @4.2.66    4 weeks ago

It's the vestiges of the Puritans and Western culture in general. In Eastern cultures this would be the norm,

especially Japan.

Surprising number of Japanese kids still bathe with their parents up until high school - Japan Today

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.82  Tessylo  replied to  JBB @4.2.75    4 weeks ago

baby pooped the tub

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.83  George  replied to  JBB @4.2.75    4 weeks ago
You don't remember either of your parents bathing you?

As a teenager? i don't think so. you dad was showering with his teenage daughters?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.84  George  replied to  TᵢG @4.2.73    4 weeks ago
No rational, responsible attorney would file charges that Biden raped his daughter based merely on the "probably inappropriate showers" sentence in a diary.

And that is nothing more than your partisan opinion.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.85  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.81    4 weeks ago

I'm pretty modest myself but too many people are prudes I believe when it comes to these things.  Folks act like it's traumatizing to see your parents naked and vice versa.  It's natural, right?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.86  JBB  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.81    4 weeks ago

I visited traditional Japanese bathhouses in Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka and those old ladies who scrubbed my ass and balls surely did not hold back one little bit. They got right in there...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.87  bugsy  replied to  JBB @4.2.86    4 weeks ago

I will give you credit for one thing. You are far and above more supportive of Biden taking a shower with his teenaged daughter than anyone else on here.

Most people would cringe at the thought.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.88  JBB  replied to  George @4.2.83    4 weeks ago

By the time I was middle school all the boys were required to strip naked and to shower together while male coaches supervised!

That is probably still normal...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.89  JBB  replied to  bugsy @4.2.87    4 weeks ago

Do you really like wrestling? How about gladiator movies? 

Have you ever seen a grown man naked? Do you want to?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.90  George  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.81    4 weeks ago

We know that Biden has been raised in Puerto Rican, Black, Irish, Jewish and Polish communities, and now you are adding Japanese to defend his behavior? 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2.91  Sean Treacy  replied to  George @4.2.90    4 weeks ago

I didn't expect to see progressives defending adults  taking inappropriate showers with kids today, but here we are

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.92  George  replied to  JBB @4.2.88    4 weeks ago

[removed][]

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.2.93  seeder  evilone  replied to  George @4.2.70    4 weeks ago
Now you are projecting, I guess we are done when all you have is a personal attack.

I wasn't talking about you, but I do find it interesting you though it was. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.94  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.91    4 weeks ago

A parent showering off with their own kids is not RAPE!

Yet the MAGAs are now here defending actual chomos!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2.95  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @4.2.81    4 weeks ago

one of my closest friends married a japanese woman he met in japan, because she refused to accept being a traditional japanese wife. the wedding was held in hawaii and the mrs and I went. it was in the oldest catholic church in maui, that burned to the ground in the last fire.

while she was raising their 2 daughters and managing their business, she also designed their custom home. it featured a traditional japanese bath for the entire family. it didn't get used much after the daughters grew to be typical american teenagers and probably became more sensitive to the differences in the 2 cultures, since they lived in a tight-ass conservative neighborhood and school district.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.96  George  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.91    4 weeks ago

Is it a side effect of TDS?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2.97  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @4.2.94    4 weeks ago
parent showering off with their own kids is not RAPE!

You are defending a man taking inappropriate showers with his daughter. 

The things defending  Biden make you do...

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.2.98  George  replied to  evilone @4.2.93    4 weeks ago
I wasn't talking about you,

Is this not what you said? "you can use the 1st Amendment to shield hypocrites who protect podophiles. I'll use my rights to call them out."

You would indicate me, and I'll means you will do something different/

but I do find it interesting you though it was.

Again it is a simple concept, you got personal. i simply read what you wrote. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.2.99  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @4.2.66    4 weeks ago
That was NOT RAPE!

Exactly!  Wasn't Ashley's diary a writing assignment at the sex and drug addiction center she was attending?  One page makes reference to sexual trauma and poses questions in search of an explanation for being "hyper-sexualized @ a young age." Along with mentions of not liking to visit a certain family's house, "being sexualized" with a female friend, and "having sex with friends @ a young age," and Ashley noted taking "showers with my dad (probably not appropriate)."

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.100  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.97    4 weeks ago

You are falsely accusing our President of raping his daughter!

"Thou shalt not bear false witness", is not just a suggestion... 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2.101  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.85    4 weeks ago
too many people are prudes I believe when it comes to these things

I only dated allegedly "prude catholic girls" in high school and all I can say is it's a good thing the zippers on my levi's were made of brass or they would have rusted shut from all the holy slobber.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.102  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.2.99    4 weeks ago

Where does it say that President Biden raped his daughter?

You know? Like Trump's spiritual advisor raped a little girl?

original

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2.103  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @4.2.100    4 weeks ago
Thou shalt not bear false witness", is not just a suggestion...

That's something to bring up with Ashley Biden. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.104  JBB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.2.103    4 weeks ago

Now you're just being silly on top of intellectually dishonest!

original

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.2.105  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @4.2.104    4 weeks ago

Her words, not mine. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.106  bugsy  replied to  JBB @4.2.89    4 weeks ago
Do you really like wrestling? How about gladiator movies? Have you ever seen a grown man naked? Do you want to

1. No but wrestlers don't wrestle naked

2. Meh. Not my thing. Gladiators did not fight to the death naked

3. Yes. I was in the Navy 20 years and no, I never dropped my soap [removed]

[] 4. Not really. I am a 57 year old man. Why would I want to?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.107  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @4.2.101    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.2.108  CB  replied to  George @4.2.58    4 weeks ago

I ask NT to put an end to this line of discussion now! If you can not prove your assertion of rape of Ashley Biden, you should not be free to proliferate it across this platform among readers.

I claim you are spreading disinformation in real time on this site in hopes of it going viral here and beyond (assuming you are there too)!

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.109  Right Down the Center  replied to  bugsy @4.2.65    4 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
4.2.110  MrFrost  replied to  bugsy @4.2.69    4 weeks ago

That's all fine and dandy, but nothing like a grown man taking a shower with his daughter that is old enough to remember.

Debunked long ago.. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.2.111  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.2.84    4 weeks ago

Is that the best you have?   You resort to simply calling me partisan?

This has nothing to do with partisan politics from my end.   It is about you taking a single sentence in a diary speaking of probably inappropriate showers and repeatedly leaping to a hyperbolic claim of certainty that Biden raped his daughter.

Your claim is a ridiculous exaggeration in the most negative way.   It is the typical partisan crap that seems to be so popular nowadays — absurd exaggerations and fabrications.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.112  bugsy  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.2.109    4 weeks ago

Others just don't know when to stop.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.113  bugsy  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.110    4 weeks ago

So you are saying his daughter lied in her diary?

Funny how no one else here has made the same claim you are. 

Maybe because they know it's true (Notice no question mark at the end)

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.2.114  Right Down the Center  replied to  MrFrost @4.2.110    4 weeks ago

How was it debunked? I understand she admitted the diary was hers and it was written in the diary.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.2.115  sandy-2021492  replied to  George @4.2.18    4 weeks ago

She never said she took showers with her dad when she was a teenager, either.

Another false statement.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.116  bugsy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.115    4 weeks ago
She never said she took showers with her dad when she was a teenager, either.

She never said she wasn't.

She was old enough to know it was inappropriate.

I have read she was 12. Not a teenager but pretty close

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.2.117  sandy-2021492  replied to  bugsy @4.2.116    4 weeks ago
She never said she wasn't.

So you assume she was, based on what, exactly?

I have read she was 12.

Where?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.118  bugsy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.117    4 weeks ago
So you assume she was, based on what, exactly?

Does it really matter? She was old enough to remember it. That in itself is inappropriate.

Would it have made a difference to you if she was 5 or 6?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.2.119  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @4.2.102    4 weeks ago
Where does it say that President Biden raped his daughter?

I’ve never made that claim.

You know? Like Trump's spiritual advisor raped a little girl?

Exactly, whataboutism.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.2.120  sandy-2021492  replied to  bugsy @4.2.118    4 weeks ago
Does it really matter?

Yeah, it really does.

If you make a claim, it really matters what your source for that claim is.

"Nobody said it was otherwise and I want to believe it, anyway" is a really shitty basis for the accusations you're making.

Would you like any similar accusation against you to be assumed true based on the same "evidence"?  Should we all be justified in assuming that you fondled your kids when you changed their diapers, just because they never said you didn't?  Or does that seem ridiculously unjust to you?  Because it seems unjust to me, applied to either you or Biden.  If you don't want people assuming you molested your kids just because your kids don't deny it, apply that same logic to others.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.2.121  Split Personality  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.85    4 weeks ago

It is the circle of life, you know.  We think nothing of bathing an infant until one of our parents comes full circle to the point where we are bathing them too.

It's all a matter of perspective and importance.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.122  JBB  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.120    4 weeks ago

One thing to remember is that the huge amount of lies and misinformation the gop is spreading is having an effect...

It is turning off voters who might have voted for Trump!

Outside rightwing bubbles that is what anyone is talking!

About how the gop is dishonest and how bad Trump LIES.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.2.123  bugsy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.2.120    4 weeks ago

Don't know where you are getting this molesting shit from because I never made the accusation. 

Why does it matter to you what age a father takes a shower with his daughter at an age that she remembers it?

Most fathers don't shower with daughters after about 3 or 4, before children get curious about anatomy. 

The difference is I don't have a daughter, but if I did, I know what is appropriate and what is not. 

Ashley Biden acknowledges that what Joe did was inappropriate.

Can you admit the same?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.3  seeder  evilone  replied to  Greg Jones @4    4 weeks ago
Another irrelevant nothing burger.

You don't care Team Trump is filled with pedophiles and sexual predators? I await your next comment on an article about LGBTQA+ people.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.3.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  evilone @4.3    4 weeks ago
Another irrelevant nothing burger.

Not to Ashley who asked that the woman who sold the diary get a significant prison sentence for the pain that Ashley has been forced to relive.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
4.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Greg Jones @4    4 weeks ago

We will never know the whole truth unless Ashley or Joe lays it bare.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.4.1  TᵢG  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.4    4 weeks ago

Correct.    Thus extreme extrapolation — especially when the language of "possibly inappropriate" is not how a woman would describe rape — is fundamentally flawed.   And it is worse if the extrapolation is put forth as fact.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5  CB    4 weeks ago

The irony here is I 'know' of this man. I have a family member that watches him everyday on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network). Wonder how TBN will process this. (Not really.) But I will let y'all know if he is 'off-air' for a while. 

I do support him for being a stand-up guy to not fight this. He did it. He owned it. He continues to own it. 

Moreover, if we all could be processed for LIFE for the crap we have done in our youth. . . . well, that one might be able to throw the first stone at Mr. Morris. 

Should he have returned to the ministry? Well, his life's work (albeit he is a conservative, maybe a "some Conservative (MAGAs)" without more sexual violations of youths or others) seems to indicate that he is fine. He is "successfully" married for 44 years I have read now.

We must forgive others when forgiveness is proven itself out!

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.1  Split Personality  replied to  CB @5    4 weeks ago

Unfortunately this is a local figure and his connection to Gateway besmirches all of the good they do.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.1  CB  replied to  Split Personality @5.1    4 weeks ago

His past conduct with/to this individual (who was a child of 12-16 years of age) sullies him. He has been 'hauled' out into the public square and humiliated. If he has to go before a judge civilly, so be it. However, I can not condemn him after what he has done in repentance.

We all search for ourselves. . . in others. . . until we find our-self!

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Quiet
5.1.2  Igknorantzruls  replied to  CB @5.1.1    4 weeks ago
We all search for ourselves. . . in others. . . until we find our-self!

Yet, when   ' in others '  we find our-self, and we are young adults and the other is a minor child, MAJOR PROBLEM.

As a society, we CANNOT "find our-self!" in others, when others are 12 year old minor children, of either sex, period! Just my humble  opine, when it comes to minors, but, two consenting adults, what ever flies your freak flag high !!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.3  CB  replied to  Igknorantzruls @5.1.2    4 weeks ago

I agree. It's a bad situation all-around. I do not make light of it. It's done, already. Punishment of some sort has already been meted out. And Mr. Morris will have to endure this with the knowledge that the world knows about it, even as he ministers before a megachurch crowd. That's intense. All those adults, and CHILDREN looking at you day in and day out.

You are correct. He is not a winner in this. Still, life must go on, somehow.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
5.2  seeder  evilone  replied to  CB @5    4 weeks ago
We must forgive others when forgiveness is proven itself out!

Maybe your god forgives. I don't forgive the pious hypocrites that inject their holier than thou entitlement into politics.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.1  devangelical  replied to  evilone @5.2    4 weeks ago
this attempt to associate Trump with this guy is about as tenuous and flimsy as it gets

those that cannot abide by the establishment clause in the 1st amendment don't belong in government...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.2  CB  replied to  evilone @5.2    4 weeks ago

Evilone, you are entitled to your opinion. Really I get it. If it occurred more recently, if the accusation had not been exposed prior, if Morris had not accepted his wrong actions. . . I would agree that more could, could, be done with this. However, even this "young lady" states that her concern is he is continues to be in ministry/pastoral services. 

Frankly, that is not her 'call.' She has stated her past dealings with Morris publicly in the present; it is now up to the congregation to decide their pastor's fate.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
5.2.3  seeder  evilone  replied to  CB @5.2.2    4 weeks ago

I'm thoroughly disgusted now.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.4  devangelical  replied to  CB @5.2.2    4 weeks ago
it is now up to the congregation to decide their pastor's fate.

pruning shears works for me...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.5  CB  replied to  evilone @5.2.3    4 weeks ago

I'm sorry, but I don't know what that means in context of what we are discussing. Where are you on this, now?

 
 
 
fineline
Freshman Silent
5.2.6  fineline  replied to  evilone @5.2    4 weeks ago

Agreed ! Do not forgive them Father, for they know what they do !

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6  Tacos!    4 weeks ago

I guess my question is why are we going to be mad about this? Because it's Trump? Or because we're really worried about the victim?

Morris was never criminally charged and by the time his accuser decided to explore legal action, she was advised the statute of limitations for criminal or civil action had probably expired.

So, this guy probably should have been prosecuted decades ago. I don't know why this didn't happen. Perhaps the victim was unwilling to testify. Today, that wouldn't be as big a barrier to prosecution. 

And we don't know what the result would have been. Maybe he could have done time. Maybe just probation. Maybe it would have just been dismissed.

I say "maybe" to all of this because we aren't getting the details. It may have been something relatively minor. It may even have been consensual - as much as relationships with minors can be consensual. The law says one thing, but many people have experienced something different.

These things often are - and were especially so back then - treated as less serious when the perpetrator is also relatively young. The story says he was in his 20s. Plenty of 20-somethings have relationships with teens, and while it may violate some statute, they often aren't prosecuted. The note that she and her family only "threatened" him with police makes it sound like relatively mild behavior. If I felt someone had raped my daughter, I wouldn't be "threatening" anyone with police. It would be more like a choice between beating him senseless or not before I definitely called the police.

Without approving of his behavior, I will echo what CB said above. On the Right, we have people claiming to be Christians who do not practice forgiveness, which I believe is a core calling of the teachings of Jesus. On the Left, we have people who say they believe in treatment, rehabilitation, and redemption for wrongdoers, but in actual practice, they are every bit as vindictive and non-forgiving as the "righteous" Right.

None of this is to say that I am pronouncing this pastor to be a good person. I don't know him. What I see, though, is people judging him for something he did 35 years ago, and that he apparently has tried to make amends for - publicly within his church - for a long time. Apparently, he has tried to do good since then and make amends.

We always say that America believes in second chances. We always say that if you apologize, people will forgive. But we don't actually live it. Is that our morality? Or is it our politics? At this point, making a big fuss over him seems political more than anything. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
6.1  seeder  evilone  replied to  Tacos! @6    4 weeks ago
On the Right, we have people claiming to be Christians who do not practice forgiveness, which I believe is a core calling of the teachings of Jesus.

On the Right we have a religious group this piece of shit is a leader of who is actively trying to criminalize the lifestyle of LGBTQA+ people by calling them pedophiles and child groomers.

Paul Pressler just passed away last week - the guy is credited as shaping the modern SBC by removing liberal leaders and moving the church into ultra-conservative politics. The publisher of the Baptist Global News refers to him as the Steve Banon of the Southern Baptist Convention. Pressler has been accused of raping and sexual assaulting 7 boys and young men. He tried to cover one up with an NDA and a $450,000.00. 

Until they admit the hypocrisy and denounce it I will continue to oppose them every time they raise their pointy little heads and claim a moral authority. Fuck them. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.2  CB  replied to  Tacos! @6    4 weeks ago

Emphatically. Our role in this is really not to judge, but to know: Mr. Morris did it, he owned doing it, and finally we know it. He can never take that back. But, he can try to live with it in the public. Interestingly, he is in the business of forgiveness. . . and must forgive himself. If there is more the law must do civilly, then there will be that to do too. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
7  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

"At this point, making a big fuss over him seems political more than anything." 

That's why I called it correctly as an anti-Trump nothing burger

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @7    4 weeks ago

seems like pedophilia is a rwnj xtian family value...

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
7.2  seeder  evilone  replied to  Greg Jones @7    4 weeks ago
That's why I called it correctly as an anti-Trump nothing burger

This is less about Trump, than it is about the hypocrisy of the MAGA faithful. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.2.1  devangelical  replied to  evilone @7.2    4 weeks ago
hypocrisy of the MAGA faithful

another solid rwnj xtian family value...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.2.2  bugsy  replied to  devangelical @7.2.1    4 weeks ago
another solid family value...

Is showering with your teenage daughter a solid family value?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.2.3  devangelical  replied to  bugsy @7.2.2    4 weeks ago

I'm not a rwnj xtian POS...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
7.2.4  Greg Jones  replied to  devangelical @7.2.3    4 weeks ago

No, you're certainly not a rwnj xtian, that's for sure.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @7.2.4    4 weeks ago

That's for sure.  They're insufferable assholes and cockroaches

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @7.2.5    4 weeks ago

complete scum

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.2.7  devangelical  replied to  bugsy @7.2.2    4 weeks ago

I don't have a teenage daughter...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.2.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @7.2.7    3 weeks ago

rude question then

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8  CB    4 weeks ago

The other shoe has dropped: One caveat, this linked article is not clear as to Mr. Morris is leaving 'mega-church" Gateway Church , too. 

Tuesday, June 18th, Pastor Morris was on his usual TBN roster, but it was a sermon/show from 2018 repeat airing.

Pastor Robert Morris resigns as overseer at Church of the Highlands

By  Ryan Foley , Christian Post Reporter Tuesday, June 18, 2024

Texas megachurch Pastor Robert Morris has resigned as an overseer of the Church of the Highlands amid allegations he repeatedly sexually molested an underage girl in the 1980s. 

Morris, who leads the Southlake, Texas-based megachurch Gateway Church, has served as an overseer of the multi-campus, Alabama-based Church of the Highlands . He stepped down from that position after his decades-old transgressions became public. 

"After being made aware of the disturbing media reports, Highlands trustees and overseers immediately initiated a due diligence process that included reaching out to Gateway's elders," trustees for the Church of the Highlands maintained in a statement to  The Roys Report .

"Before the scheduled follow-up meeting to determine changes in our governance structure, Pastor Morris resigned as an overseer of Church of the Highlands."

On Saturday, The Dallas Morning News published an   article   detailing allegations of sexual abuse against Morris by Cindy Clemishire the day after   The Wartburg Watch   first reported the allegations.

Clemishire, now 54, told the outlet that the misconduct occurred in the 1980s, beginning when she was a 12-year-old girl. 

Clemishire recalled the first instance of sexual abuse, which took place as he stayed at her home while preaching in Tulsa, Oklahoma, as part of his role as a traveling preacher.

More including sordid details about who did what and how on the link:  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9  CB    4 weeks ago

Megachurch pastor resigns after admitting 'sexual behavior' with 'young lady.' She was 12.



Cindy Clemishire says Gateway Church senior pastor Robert Morris was 21 when he began molesting her when she was 12. Morris, who says he has 'walked in purity' since, has now resigned.

The pastor of a megachurch in Dallas resigned Tuesday, two days after admitting to "inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady" 35 years ago. The "young lady" in question was 12 and the "behavior" as she described it would amount to criminal sexual abuse.

The now-former Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway Church was preaching to more than 100,000 active attendees and was once a spiritual adviser to former President Donald Trump. His resignation comes four days after 54-year-old Cindy Clemishire went public with allegations that Morris started molesting her when she was 12 and he was 21, telling USA TODAY on Tuesday that she was no longer afraid.

"It was kissing and petting and not intercourse, but it was wrong," Morris, 62, said Sunday in a statement to local Dallas news station WFAA-TV. "This behavior happened on several occasions over the next few years ... Since that time, I have walked in purity and accountability in this area." 

At first the church was standing behind Morris but announced his resignation following a wave of criticism.

In a statement issued to members of the news media, the church's board of elders said they previously understood that Morris had an "extramarital relationship" with a "young lady," citing the pastor's words − "not abuse of a 12-year-old child."

"We are heartbroken and appalled by what has come to light over the past few days, and we express our deep sympathy to the victim and her family," according to the statement, obtained by CBS News and NBC News.

So it's official. Pastor Morris is not Mr. Morris with his resignation from Gateway Church.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1  devangelical  replied to  CB @9    4 weeks ago

he's repented. he's confessed. he's forgiven. now it's time to start a new church. he's got bills to pay and a lifestyle to maintain...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9.1.1  CB  replied to  devangelical @9.1    4 weeks ago

Well, he could do it. I think I have heard of such a thing happening. If there are people who want to follow him. . . some may even leave Gateway church and his oversight church to join him in a new ministry. I have heard of it happening before. As for me, it is what it is. I don't have an opinion about it one way or the other after this.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1.2  devangelical  replied to  CB @9.1.1    4 weeks ago

I'd like it better if he had a big cross branded onto his face...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9.1.3  CB  replied to  devangelical @9.1.2    4 weeks ago

Wow! That's so Viking! ;)

 
 
 
fineline
Freshman Silent
9.1.4  fineline  replied to  devangelical @9.1.2    3 weeks ago

Up-side down.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  fineline @9.1.4    3 weeks ago

nice touch

 
 

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