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Moving the needle

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  2 weeks ago  •  50 comments

Moving the needle
This is what young people across the country were protesting for and finally the needle has moved in a significant way.

The antisemitic faux refuge from Somalia now representing a district in Minesota may finally be right about one thing. Those antisemitic protests sweeping across American universities, have had an impact on the policy of Joe Biden. Since Biden has taken office, he has been on both knees to the radical left. Now he has gone so far as to deny the aid that congress granted to Israel. Israel now faces the last 4 battalions of Hamas held up in the border town of Rafah. Biden does not want Rafah invaded. If Israel does not move to clean out Rafah, Hamas will survive and is sure to repeat the Oct 7th massacre.

There are consequences for these recent campus riots. They are clearly a threat to Biden's reelection as is his treatment of Israel. For Rep Ilhan Omar, a censure resolution in the House awaits her for all the vile antisemitic statements she has made. I'm sure that democrats will likely seek to save her. And here the usual suspects will reject the facts and hide.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago


The latest censure resolution comes in direct response to comments Omar made last week suggesting that some Jewish students at Columbia University were “pro-genocide.” 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago

From NPR

This comes after Omar was asked by Fox 5 New York during her April visit to a student encampment at Columbia University about allegations of rising antisemitism at the protests. "We should not have to tolerate antisemitism or bigotry for all Jewish students , whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide," Omar responded.

Oh. Well, that gives a bit of color to the story. As a matter of fact, it appears that she spoke against antisemitism and bigotry. 

Once again, a story from the right wing gives only part of the truth, not all of it. One can be against the war, be pro-Palestinian, and be for the people of Israel all at the same time. But don't let facts stand in the way of a good half-truth when the story is the falsity of the commentary.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @1.1    2 weeks ago
it appears that she spoke against antisemitism and bigotry. 

Read it again:

whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide," Omar responded.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @1.1    2 weeks ago
One can be against the war, be pro-Palestinian, and be for the people of Israel all at the same time.

What does that mean:

- Does against the war mean to turn a blind eye to the Intifadas and 13 Oct 23?

- Does pro-Palestinian mean that Israel should negotiate with Hamas or the PA or both?

- Does being for the people of Israel mean a rejection of From the River to the Sea?

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.3  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

Yes. I read it. Are there pro-genocide students? I bet if you looked there would be some that espouse that level of severity among the Jewish students. To think that there are not is more than naive. Are Jewish people somehow not given to the same bell curve in attitudes that the rest of the world's cultures are? There are some Jewish people who consider all Palestinians to be "less than" themselves. Therefore, there must be a certain segment, statistically speaking, students who share the same attitude. 

So, go on, ignore the first part of her statement. It just leads down the rabbit hole of misunderstanding. If that is your bag, who am I to keep you from it.

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.4  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.2    2 weeks ago
What does that mean:

- Does against the war mean to turn a blind eye to the Intifadas and 13 Oct 23?

- Does pro-Palestinian mean that Israel should negotiate with Hamas or the PA or both?

- Does being for the people of Israel mean a rejection of From the River to the Sea?

Don't be coy or feign misunderstanding. I know you are smarter than that.

  • Being against the war means being against the war. It does not mean ignoring anything. The reason that Hamas gained power is because they brought services to the population of Gaza, thereby gaining the people's favor and votes. Once they gained this trust, they abused it. Hamas is the government and the perpetrator of the atrocities, not the people of Gaza. The atrocities were intended to spark a regional or wider conflict. I think (hope?) that the danger of this wider conflict has mostly passed. I think that Israel missed an opportunity to show goodwill to the people of Gaza by moving the people themselves, then blowing shit up. Dangerous, really expensive, and tricky? Hell, yes. But the public relations would have been much better. 

  • Pro-Palestinian means advocating for the rights of the Palestinian people. I think that Hamas is a terrorist organization and bargains in bad faith. Because of this, they need to be rendered powerless or at least less powerful. More important is to show the Palestinian people (and the world) how Hamas operates and how that way of operating is detrimental to peace. Then present an alternative where the Palestinian people can see that they stand a chance of not being lorded over. The PA is corrupt and should be replaced also in the same way.

  • Being for the people of Israel means advocating for the rights of the citizens and others who call Israel their home. From the river to the sea is a slogan. If everyone in the area between the river and the sea is free to come and go where and as they please, then it has been achieved. The likelihood of this is negative 50 percent because everyone in control of the area seems to have a big dick and likes to slap as many faces as they can with them.

The way to gain peace in the Middle East is to give up on religion as a way of organizing states and the realization of basic human rights for all people. Snort. Like that will ever happen. We will go extinct before that.

 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
Hamas is the government and the perpetrator of the atrocities, not the people of Gaza.

Gazans have celebrated the Intifadas and 13 Oct.

Then present an alternative where the Palestinian people can see that they stand a chance of not being lorded over. The PA is corrupt and should be replaced also in the same way.

Who is presenting that alternative?

From the river to the sea is a slogan. If everyone in the area between the river and the sea is free to come and go where and as they please, then it has been achieved.

That’s not the Palestinian interpretation.

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.6  Thomas  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.5    2 weeks ago
Gazans have celebrated the Intifadas and 13 Oct.

Yep. Some of them. Unsurprising, since over 50% (I think that's the right number) have been born subsequent to Hamas gaining control of Gaza. Hamas is unfortunately in control of education in Gaza and, according to what I have heard/read, Hamas is not above propagandizing to children. The basis of the chasm between Israel and Hamas is religion. Religion is why Israel exists and Religion is why Hamas exists. Unfortunately, even though they supposedly both pray to the same god, each thinks that the other is doing it wrong. To be fair, Hamas bears the responsibility in this conflict and using the vector of religion to leverage power, but it is really all about how much of a patch of dirt one controls anyway  ...I digress. 

Then present an alternative where the Palestinian people can see that they stand a chance of not being lorded over. The PA is corrupt and should be replaced also in the same way.
Who is presenting that alternative?

Not one person that I see. Pity.

That’s not the Palestinian interpretation.

Not now. Do you think it is just magically going to happen? It takes work nobody wants to do because there is no money in it, just karmic satisfaction, which is good until you try to spend it. Unless you consider peace in the Middle East to be a worthy life goal...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Thomas @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

When you eat, sleep, work, and pray with terrorists, while allowing yourself to be used as a shield, it gets hard to tell who is who 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
1.1.8  George  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.7    2 weeks ago
When you eat, sleep, work, and pray with terrorists, while allowing yourself to be used as a shield, it gets hard to tell who is who

The non-terrorists are the ones who just want to go to class to learn and be productive members of society.   

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  George @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

Everyone seems so worried about the Palestinians.

Palestinians have rejected every peace agreement or broke them, have rejected offers of a two state solution, and I am unsympathetic to them.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.1.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

They may be, the only multi-generational, professional refugee cohort that there is.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

All of that sympathy wasted on people who only want the destruction of Israel.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Thomas @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Pro-genocide means being pro the INTENTIONAL murder of civilians.  The Nazis were pro-genocide because they intentionally rounded up, shipped to death camps and gassed and cremated millions of Jews, INTENTIONALLY.  Hamas was genocidal on October 7 because it INTENDED to rape, torture and murder innocent civilians.  Now, are you saying that when Hamas hides among the Gazan civilians, uses them as human shields and I'm sure many of the civilians willingly hide the militants among them, that the collateral damage that inevitably is going to happen in that circumstance is genocide?  Because if you do, then the allies, including America, perpetrated genocide by killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in their bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo and wherever else they bombed in WW2.  So in that case, Mr. Thomas, YOUR nation was even MORE genocidal than Israel, Israel that warns civilians with dropped leaflets, phone calls and emails to vacate where a target will be, something that those who know war well, like Colonel Richard Kemp, describe as more humanitarian than any invading army in history has EVER been.  So please, Israel is the LAST nation on Earth that can be called "genocidal". 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.13  Krishna  replied to  Thomas @1.1    2 weeks ago
whether they are C," Omar responded.

But how can you tell whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide?

One possible solution-- invented in the days of yore, in the town of Salem, MA:

Throw them in a deep river. If they sink they are anti genocide-- but if they float they are pro-genocide (and some folks way back then would say if they float they must be killed )

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.14  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.1.13    2 weeks ago

Throw them in a deep river. If they sink they are anti genocide-- but if they float they are pro-genocide (and some folks way back then would say if they float they must be killed ).

As it is written:

Exodus 22:18 KJV - Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live

Bible Gateway
 › passage

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.15  Thomas  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.12    2 weeks ago
Pro-genocide means being pro the INTENTIONAL murder of civilians.  The Nazis were pro-genocide because they intentionally rounded up, shipped to death camps and gassed and cremated millions of Jews, INTENTIONALLY.

OK. so what about your comment rebuts or refutes a point I made in my comment? I did not call what is occurring genocide. 

In 1948, the  United Nations   Genocide Convention  defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly

People should be careful with the words that they use. Ms. Omar wasn't, but that hardly invites censure, especially when one has to lie to make it stick.

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.16  Thomas  replied to  Krishna @1.1.13    2 weeks ago
But how can you tell whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide?

An interview with them usually works. Or listen to a campaign speech by Donald Trump.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.17  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Thomas @1.1.15    2 weeks ago

That depends on what is considered a group.  If you intend to call Hamas a group, then the UN definition is IMO garbage because it prevents the eradication of monsters.  If the group is Gazans generally, I doubt that there is any intention by Israel to do any of the things mentioned in the UN definition, or else the definition is too broad to be realistic, because it is much too broad, and would even mean that an American policeman shooting a gang member would be considered a genocide. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.17    2 weeks ago

In fact, the UN definition is so ridiculously broad it could be applied against the kid defending his home in the movie Home Alone. 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.19  Thomas  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.17    2 weeks ago
That depends on what is considered a group.

Or what the definition of "is" is... 

C'mon Buzz: "national, ethnical, racial or religious" - Palestinians are a group. Israelis are a group. Jewish people are a group. Hamas is an organization. 

Ms. Omar was presenting a false dichotomy. Just because improper argumentation is used is not a reason for censure. Every last person falls into improper argumentation from time to time. The Thing to do is to learn when people are using this and raise the issue to call attention to the improper argumentation. The thing not to do is to use improper argumentation against the person. Then both people in the discussion can point to the other and say, "Look what you did!" and not address the central argument. At that point, it just becomes bickering.

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.20  Thomas  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.18    2 weeks ago
In fact, the UN definition is so ridiculously broad it could be applied against the kid defending his home in the movie Home Alone. 

Not in this reality. Read it again:

"acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.21  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Thomas @1.1.20    2 weeks ago

Yes, Israel is acting to destroy completely Hamas, a "group" that is hell-bent to destroy Israel, and of course the anti-Semitic UN and the anti-Semitic ICC will declare Israel to be carrying out a genocide.  In that regard they are right, and I STRONGLY agree with Israel, and as I've been saying for a long time now I wish that the Manhattan UN building would be bulldozed into the East River while occupied by its anti-Semitic staff and 140 anti-Semitic member state representatives, and that the ICC encounter a similar disaster.  Hey, maybe that makes me genocidal, and believe me, I am fucking well proud of it and don't give a damn about whether what Omar had to say can have any kind of fancy definition whether or not it justifies her and her hatred. 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
1.1.22  Thomas  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.21    2 weeks ago

Hamas is not a "national, ethnical, racial or religious group" it is a terrorist organization. Therefore, by definition, genocide cannot be committed on Hamas. Indeed, Hamas is based on the removal of the Jewish state of Israel. I agree with the intent of what the IDF are doing. The intent is the removal of Hamas as a functional, authoritative state actor. I disagree with the means that they are using to achieve those ends. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.23  Texan1211  replied to  Thomas @1.1.22    2 weeks ago
I disagree with the means that they are using to achieve those ends.

How would you manage it?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.24  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.23    2 weeks ago

Yes, that's the question that some can't answer, isn't it?  After all, it can't be easy to tell who is Hamas and who isn't when Hamas hides among the civilian population and uses civilians as human shields which is absolutely contrary to any law or rule or understanding of a requirement for soldiers to practice, or else THEY are the ones who are to be blamed for the civilian deaths, but no, the bleeding hearts of our miserable world LOVE Hamas, support them, protest in favour of them, and as you and I and some others who are REALISTIC realize that even on this site there are those who blame Israel.  HAS ANYONE BLAMED HAMAS?  HAS ANYONE DEMANDED HAMAS SURRENDER IN ORDER TO STOP THE BLOODSHED?  FUCK NO - it's ISRAEL that must stop, must allow Hamas to survive to keep invading Israel like Oct 7 and keep firing rockets and missiles into Israel as they have even been reported doing now, fired from Rafah, where the bleeding hearts say Israel mustn't touch.  I'm sick of what this world has become but at least I know I don't have a lot of time left to have to watch it turning to shit.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.25  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.24    2 weeks ago

You're preaching to the choir about all of that!

My sympathy for Palestinians is scarce, almost non-existent.

After all these years, they still embrace Hamas.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago
Since Biden has taken office, he has been on both knees to the radical left. Now he has gone so far as to deny the aid that congress granted to Israel

it seems republicans forget that ronnie raygun did something similar to menachem begin 43 years ago with some F-16's...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2    2 weeks ago
it seems republicans forget that ronnie raygun did something similar to menachem begin 43 years ago with some F-16's...

Forget?

Nope, just it's that we know that Reagan doesn't have a damn thing to do with Biden no matter how hard the far left radicals attempt to spin and deflect.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    2 weeks ago

clueless comment...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.2    2 weeks ago

probably misunderstood.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.2.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @1.2    2 weeks ago
it seems republicans forget that ronnie raygun did something similar to menachem begin 43 years ago with some F-16's...

Exactly, that action sure stoped the cycle of violence in the Mideast.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.4    2 weeks ago

Funny how some must go back about 50 YEARS to deflect in order to attempt to make Biden look better somehow.

jrSmiley_55_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.6  devangelical  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.4    2 weeks ago

exactly, time to consolidate the violence among the major perpetrators within lebanon, gaza and israel.

move the innocent from gaza to the west bank and turn gaza into rubble. then march bibi, the draft dodging haredim, all west bank illegal settlement occupiers, palestinian political prisoners, hezbollah terrorist volunteers, and the religious radicals in israeli gov't into gaza and tell them it's their new ultra nationalist homeland, separate from israel, pick a new name when the killing ends. that would probably help to reduce the violence in israel and the west bank and focus it upon the ultra religious, useless human vermin on both sides into the gaza containment area surrounded by a 1/2 mile wide kill zone for the IDF to deal with any escape attempts.

the immediate resulting benefit for israel would be the elimination of all gov't subsidies to those religious radicals that think being paid to study the torah full time as a career and breeding like rabbits is productive and economically sustainable in israeli society. a moratorium on all US foreign and military aid to israel would expedite the process, as well as closing the US embassy in jerusalem and moving it. prohibitive taxation upon any private money flowing from the US to israel and gaza would also help, as well as encouraging xtian nationalists here in the US to participate in gaza liberation and gaining some hands on experience in creating a theocracy. /s

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.7  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.5    2 weeks ago
Funny how some must go back about 50 YEARS to deflect in order to attempt to make Biden look better somehow.

yeah, that never happens in magaland... /s

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.7    2 weeks ago

I wouldn't know, but will concede you may be an "expert" on all things Trump.

Personally, I never cared that much.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.6    2 weeks ago

How would you be able to tell a 'refugee' from a terrorist?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.10  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.9    2 weeks ago
Personally, I never cared that much.

... except for your continued defense of him.

How would you be able to tell a 'refugee' from a terrorist?

refugees are the women and children in gaza that are still alive, and probably most unarmed males there too...

if you want to stop nonsecular based violence, you promote or help to facilitate the internecine violence among the religious radical participants ...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.10    2 weeks ago

Left wing radicals keep proving they have absolutely no clue what defending someone is.

I sure hope they learn soon so they can stop throwing false accusations around 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.2.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @1.2.6    2 weeks ago

The dysfunction across the MidEast is much more structural and cultural than the existence of Israel.  Most of the ME lag behind much of the world in development indicators such as political freedom, scientific progress, and the rights of women.

I can't think of a single issue, in this region that provides an achievable end state on which the locals can agree to work toward. 

Other than Jordan, there are no Arab leaders to work with. The Arab Spring wasn't an accident.

It's in Putin's interest for the region to remain unstable.

The world is rapidly losing interest in these backward people as Asia eclipses the ME as a much more of a strategic interest.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.13  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.10    2 weeks ago
except for your continued defense of him.

Sure are lots of people who wish to falsely claim that.

you all have something else in common 

not a single one if you can ever manage to quote me doing what you claim.

Why do you keep making false claims?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.14  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.13    2 weeks ago

your supporting comments of trump along with continuous denials of support are available for everyone to read...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.15  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.14    2 weeks ago

Always with the false claim but woefully short on fact or truth.

QUOTE ME!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.16  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.15    2 weeks ago
QUOTE ME!

No need. Far leftists rely on innuendo and false claims to get through life.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.17  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @1.2.16    2 weeks ago

it is just so many exhibit no knowledge of what a defense actually is. it's no surprise no one who spews the Defending Trump crap can quote me doing it.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

Hamas must be thanking Allah everyday for Joe Biden. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago
And here the usual suspects will reject the facts and hide.

Vic, no one hides from you. [deleted][]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 weeks ago

 You do show up when the bell rings but take a look behind you once in a while.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4  Nerm_L    2 weeks ago

"If we need to stand alone, we will stand alone."  

Courage that Joe Biden lacks and Ilhan Omar fears.  Maybe, just maybe, God really is on Israel's side.  What then?

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
4.1  Thomas  replied to  Nerm_L @4    2 weeks ago
Maybe, just maybe, God really is on Israel's side.  What then?

The tooth fairy gags Putin and Rides him to the Donald? Where a massive hole from Hell opens up and swallows the three. As a geologist, that's my bet. /s

 
 

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