╌>

A year later, Florida businesses say the state's immigration law dealt a blow : NPR

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  kavika  •  4 weeks ago  •  67 comments

By:   Jasmine Garsd (NPR)

A year later, Florida businesses say the state's immigration law dealt a blow : NPR
Florida passed in 2023 one of the strictest immigration laws in the country, and now businesses struggle to find workers in several sectors of the economy

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


April 26, 20245:01 AM ET

Jasmine Garsd

A year later, Florida businesses say the state's immigration law dealt a huge blow


Listen · 6:33 6:33 Toggle more options

  • Download
  • Embed Embed < iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/1242236604/1247262776" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player">

Enlarge this image

Carolina reviews the strawberry pints picked by farmworkers in a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Fla., on Feb. 28. Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR hide caption

toggle caption Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

Carolina reviews the strawberry pints picked by farmworkers in a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Fla., on Feb. 28.

Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

PLANT CITY, Fla. — It's early morning in this small agricultural town in Central Florida and the pickers are already hunched over the bushes, plucking strawberries, the main crop out here.

Fidel Sanchez instructs his workers to get rid of the fruit that fell and rotted on the ground.

There's a lot of it.

Like other farmers out here, Sanchez is worried about how long he will be able to keep his business going.

About a year ago, Florida Governor- and then presidential candidate- Ron DeSantis passed one of the toughest crackdowns on immigration in the country.

SB1718 punishes employers who use undocumented labor and forbids undocumented people from having a driver's license.

Many local Florida businesses say the new law has led to workers leaving the state that's hurt their bottom line. "A lot of people are scared," says Sanchez. "A lot of people went north and never came back.


The Federal government estimates that nationwide over 40% of farmworkers are undocumented.

Sanchez says the effect of the law was immediate.

Families he'd worked with for 20 or 30 years were gone from one day to the next. "The government doesn't seem to care," he says. "Maybe they think the crops are gonna pick themselves."

Enlarge this image

Fidel Sanchez, owner of Sanchez Farm, poses for a photo at a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Florida, U.S., February 28, 2024. Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR hide caption

toggle caption Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

Fidel Sanchez, owner of Sanchez Farm, poses for a photo at a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Florida, U.S., February 28, 2024.

Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR Enlarge this image

Fidel Sanchez, owner of Sanchez Farm, holds damaged pineberries at a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Fla., on Feb. 28. Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR hide caption

toggle caption Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

Fidel Sanchez, owner of Sanchez Farm, holds damaged pineberries at a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Fla., on Feb. 28.

Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

The Florida Policy Institute estimates this immigration law could cost the state's economy $12.6 billion in its first year. That's not counting the loss of tax revenue.

A spokesperson for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis told NPR, "Governor DeSantis signed the most ambitious anti-illegal immigration law in the country to protect Floridians." They also stated that Florida can "still maintain a robust economy."

Ron Hetrick, a senior economist at Lightcast, a labor market analytics company says the problem is the state has a serious labor shortage.

The Pew Research Center estimates there is close to one million undocumented people.

Even if just a fraction of them were to leave, Hetrick says, "how do these cities get built? How do the houses get built? We all know very well how these things are being built. "

Hetrick says what Florida is facing is symbolic of the larger reality in the country with an aging population and politicians framing immigration as a threat, rather than fixing a broken system.

"The future... if you look at census projection for the growth of this country, once this boomer population goes through in the next, you know, 15 years... without immigration, we shrink."

A spokesperson for Ron DeSantis told NPR that businesses are still free to hire immigrants, as long as it's legally.

In 2023 Florida hired thousands more H-2A guest workers than the year before. But farmers NPR spoke to said the bureaucracy, and the cost for applying for these work permits is crippling. There have also been widespread reports of lack of oversight and exploitation of H2A workers.

Enlarge this image

Farmworkers pick strawberries at a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Florida, U.S., February 28, 2024. Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR hide caption

toggle caption Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

Farmworkers pick strawberries at a Sanchez Farm field in Plant City, Florida, U.S., February 28, 2024.

Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR Enlarge this image

Gary Wishnatzki, third generation owner of Wish Farms, poses for a photo at Wish Farms in Plant City, Florida, U.S., February 28, 2024. Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR hide caption

toggle caption Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

Gary Wishnatzki, third generation owner of Wish Farms, poses for a photo at Wish Farms in Plant City, Florida, U.S., February 28, 2024.

Eva Marie Uzcategui for NPR

"The H-2A system is absolutely broken," says Gary Wishnatzki, head of Wish Farms, also in Plant City.

This is one of the largest strawberry growers in the nation. His field harvesters in Florida are on H-2A visas.

"It's the only means of getting workers at the farm right now", says Wishnatzki. "But it's totally outdated."

Even for a company as large as them, the cost has become crushing, he says.

They have to pay a recruitment company, visa fees, housing workers, pay for meals, and transportation.

Unless something changes soon, he says, "berries are going to become an item that's going to be a luxury, not something people buy every time they go to the grocery store like they do now."

National


To keep immigrants from fleeing, Florida GOP focus on immigration law loopholes


The shortage of workers it's not just impacting agriculture.

NPR spoke to hoteliers, construction business owners, and restauranteurs who said Florida's labor shortage, combined with arthritic national immigration policies, is hurting the bottom line.

"Years ago, you'd put an ad in a newspaper, you'd have you'd have a bunch of applications filled out. You'd have people lined up outside your door," says David Crowther, owner of CFS Roofing Services in Fort Myers.

Because Florida is in the path of hurricanes, roofing is in high demand here. In recent years, Fort Myers has been especially hard hit and Crowther says it's been a challenge to find workers at all levels, from management to roofers.

Crowther's company lost about 10 percent of its workers after Florida passed the SB1718 immigration bill in 2023. These workers were scared for the safety of their undocumented family members, he says.

Crowther says if he could hire more immigrant labor, it would ultimately trickle down into more jobs for American workers.

"If I knew I could get an unlimited supply of labor, I then would start hiring estimators and salesmen over to start promoting more work. It's a domino effect."

Crowther, along with the National Roofing Contractors Association, has been petitioning for an expansion of the H2B program, which provides temporary non-agricultural visas.

Crowther says business is good. But it could be so much better if only he could find more workers.

For others in Florida, SB1718 brought a hard hit to their economy and threw the labor market into turmoil.

The law created a climate of fear that many had no option but to leave the state.

A few miles north, at a fruit market, a woman sitting in the cool shade of her fruit stand says, she dreams of leaving.

Ana Maria Perez got to Florida 20 years ago, but things have changed.

As a Latina and a business owner, she says it makes no sense to stay.

"It's real," she says. "Farms don't have the workforce they used to. So now the cost of fruit rose for us."

Enlarge this image

Ana Maria Perez says, SB1718 dealt a blow to her business, and gave way to a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment. Jasmine Garsd/Jasmine Garsd/NPR hide caption

toggle caption Jasmine Garsd/Jasmine Garsd/NPR

Ana Maria Perez says, SB1718 dealt a blow to her business, and gave way to a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment.

Jasmine Garsd/Jasmine Garsd/NPR

Perez started as a fruit picker when she came from Mexico. She says it was physically exhausting, so she stopped after she became a legal resident.

The fruit stand was supposed to be a step up, but once the law went into effect, "you should've seen it. The mangos and mameys falling to the ground. No one to pick."

Perez says next year, when her kid graduates college, she's planning to leave Florida. She's done. She shakes her head and gets back to packing some limes.

"We all lost out here," she says. "We all lost." `

  • Facebook
  • Flipboard
  • Email

Red Box Rules

OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT WARNING.


 

Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
[]
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Kavika     4 weeks ago

Like most other countries we have an aging population but we also have immigrants, both legal and illegal. Instead of our political parties fixing our immigration system, we point fingers. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @1    4 weeks ago

trump shut down the best immigration deal republicans were ever going to get.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  devangelical @1.1    4 weeks ago
Then they need to change their approach to attract LEGAL workers.

That was really fricking stupid, and the sheep in congress went along with it. Amazing.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1.1    4 weeks ago

but, but, but everything is all President Biden's fault!  I just heard the former 'president' turd talking about something and of course every word out of the traitor turd's mouth was sheer projection.   I wish he would go away - just go away - I don't care how or where - I don't want to hear his lying fucking projection anymore and his cult denying the obvious and residing in their alternate evil reality

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

the term is trump fatigue. the dumb ass started his campaign 6 months too early.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.4  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @1.1.3    4 weeks ago

at the current rate of his physical decline, I'll be shocked if the fucker is still breathing in 2025.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.5  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @1.1.4    4 weeks ago

it seems criminal court court can be so very stressful and exhausting...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.6  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

like I care...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.7  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.2    3 weeks ago
but, but, but everything is all President Biden's fault! 

Not everything but most things

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.8  Right Down the Center  replied to  devangelical @1.1.3    3 weeks ago
the term is trump fatigue.

Which side of the political spectrum brings him up several times a day?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.8    3 weeks ago
Which side of the political spectrum brings him up several times a day?

This is so obvious.

Trump is in the news daily.   He is the most talked about subject and likely will remain so until the election.   And the vast majority of Trump news is negative.    He has stepped in a lot of shit and continues to wallow in it.

So of course his political adversaries will note the daily stream of negative Trump news.

And, similarly, those who seek to defend and protect Trump (and the GOP) will NOT bring up the daily Trump news and, instead, try to downplay it, deflect, etc.  

See @1.1.8

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.10  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.9    3 weeks ago
This is so obvious.

It might be obvious but it is irrelevant to the context of my comment.  I was saying the same people that complain about not wanting to hear him and Trump fatigue are the same ones constantly bringing him up.

Obviously you were just looking for an opportunity to say Bad Trump and make a lame accusation..

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.11  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.2    3 weeks ago
I don't want to hear his lying fucking projection anymore

Neither do I.  That is why I change the channel when he is on TV or the "news" people are talking about him.  When I read about him here I take it as entertainment because of the spin.

It is almost a Trump free life, give it a try.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.12  JohnRussell  replied to  devangelical @1.1.3    3 weeks ago
the dumb ass started his campaign 6 months too early.

to try and head off the criminal indictments

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.13  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.10    3 weeks ago
I was saying the same people that complain about not wanting to hear him and Trump fatigue are the same ones constantly bringing him up.

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif      That is an entirely different statement than the question you posed:

RdtC @1.1.8 Which side of the political spectrum brings him up several times a day?

I answered the question you posed.


Now to address your statement, Trump fatigue was referring to the fact that Trump IS always in the news, always consuming news bandwidth and that people would like him to just go away.   

For example, the individual who seeds most articles about Trump on this site would very likely love for Trump to be out of the limelight and out of our lives.   I would bet huge that he would NOT continue seeding about a meaningless Trump who is no longer in the daily news cycle and has no effect on any of our lives.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.14  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.13    3 weeks ago
has no effect on any of our lives.

Nailed it. That is the present situation. So why the obsession?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.15  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.10    3 weeks ago
Obviously you were just looking for an opportunity to say Bad Trump.

Bad Trump.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.16  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.13    3 weeks ago
That is an entirely different statement than the question you posed:

Maybe it would have helped if you looked at the comment I was responding to in order to get the context of the question jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif , or even the one before it.

I am well aware of what Trump fatigue is and again my comment is it is self inflicted.  That is fine but makes complaining about it a bit silly since there is something that could be done about it. See 1.1.11 .  

 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.17  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.15    3 weeks ago
Bad Trump.

Now try it with a shot of Makers 46.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.18  TᵢG  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.14    3 weeks ago
Nailed it. So why the obsession?

You dishonestly cherrypicked part of one of my sentences and presented it in a way that changed my meaning.

The fact is that Trump most definitely has an effect on our lives.   Even as a candidate, he is influencing (shaping) the GOP into a dysfunctional cult based on lies.    Surely you know that Congress has an effect on our lives and the GOP is a major portion of Congress.

As PotUS, Trump clearly had an effect on our lives.   Do I really need to explain this?   For example, did Trump's attempt to downplay COVID-19 have an effect on our lives?    Did his judicial appointments and the subsequent reversal of Roe v Wade have an effect?    And you know I could go into plenty of detail of the ill effects of Trump's Big Lie campaign.  

If Trump is reelected (he IS the presumptive nominee of the GOP) do you recognize that he will again be in a very powerful position to have an effect on our lives?    

The question for you is why you do not think Trump has an effect on the lives of US citizens (and even, to a lesser degree, the rest of the planet)?   And how is it that you call it an obsession to be concerned that Trump could very well win the presidency (50/50 right now)?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.19  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.16    3 weeks ago

I answered your question and responded to your statement.

Either show how I am wrong or move on.   

See  1.1.11  .  

Some people consider it irresponsible to tune out the portions of reality that are uncomfortable.   Some, rather, deal with reality both good and bad and take actions to help (their contribution) make things a little better.

I suspect most people do not do this (but I could be wrong):

article-0-1A2B262D00000578-818_636x382.jpg

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.20  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.19    3 weeks ago
Either show how I am wrong or move on.   

You ignored the context.  Feel free to admit it or move on.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.20    3 weeks ago

Same old crap.    You cannot rebut what I wrote so you toss out fluffy nonsense like this.   

If you think my responses were wrong then make a specific rebuttal.

I gave you a direct answer to your question.   And then, when asked, gave a direct response to your concern about context.   

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.22  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.18    3 weeks ago
As PotUS, Trump clearly had an effect on our lives.   Do I really need to explain this?   For example, did Trump's attempt to downplay COVID-19 have an effect on our lives?   

Not mine............

Did his judicial appointments and the subsequent reversal of Roe v Wade have an effect? 

Not mine........

And I asked ad nauseum when he was PotUS how it negatively affected a few members and theirs here with him being in office. Very little if any cogent answers other than laughing stock of the world (which doesn't affect anyone), lies that he told (which doesn't affect anyone and actually makes them laugh) and stupid shit like that that they dug up. And it was a matter of fact, this type of bullshit.

256

All fear mongering. Not to mention the bullshit about the stock market crashing, WWIII and look at us now compared to when he was in office. China, Iran, Russia, North Korea to mention a few that didn't pull their shit when he was in office. He is unpredictable and that scared the shit out of a lot of people...........not always a bad thing.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.23  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.21    3 weeks ago
Same old crap.

I agree with the comment but not with who is doing it.  I am done but before you comment remember:

256

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.24  Right Down the Center  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.22    3 weeks ago

Well put but you still seem to ignore mean tweets, end of democracy and dictator on day one.  jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.1.25  afrayedknot  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.24    3 weeks ago

“…you still seem to ignore mean tweets, end of democracy and dictator on day one.”

Only to be ignored if words and deeds somehow no longer matter. 

“Neither irony or sarcasm is argument.” ~Samuel Butler

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.26  Right Down the Center  replied to  afrayedknot @1.1.25    3 weeks ago
Only to be ignored if words and deeds somehow no longer matter. 

It works for brain dead biden and his supporters

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Quiet
1.1.27  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.22    3 weeks ago

Very generous of you. Glad nothing affects you. Do you have any family? Do you have any close friends? For it is possible, this current country wasn't built for just you, but it's 'interesting' that you look at it that way, in a fckd up way. Just curious why you are here commenting though, cause, you know, none of this affects you, and you're all that concerns you, and that's swell, but don't tell others what should concern them, as that is none of your damn business, now is it !

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.28  TᵢG  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.22    3 weeks ago
Not mine............   Not mine........

If you are not affected then that means Trump does not have an effect on the lives of the American people???    You, Just Jim, are the only person who matters ... if you are not affected then Trump ipso fact has no effect on the lives of Americans???

You cannot think that is a strong rebuttal.   Clearly Trump has an effect on the American people.   There is no denying it.

And I asked ad nauseum when he was PotUS how it negatively affected a few members and theirs here with him being in office.

You write this in response to a post from me where I listed how Trump has, does and could in the future have an effect on the American people.   So my rebuttal preceded your argument.

So, let's just pick one point and be crystal clear.   Trump claims to be the reason for the demise of Roe v. Wade.   Did its demise have an effect on the American people (not just you ... think of the other 333 million)?

And now in the abstract, do you really want to maintain that a PotUS has no effect on the American people?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.29  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.22    3 weeks ago
Not mine............
Did his judicial appointments and the subsequent reversal of Roe v Wade have an effect? 
Not mine........

if nothing effects you personally then why do you care what college students in new york are doing ? 

for that matter , why do you care what Hamas is doing ? 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.30  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.28    3 weeks ago
You write this in response to a post from me where I listed how Trump has, does and could in the future have an effect on the American people.   So my rebuttal preceded your argument.

And the question is you and yours NEGATIVELY.

So, let's just pick one point and be crystal clear.   Trump claims to be the reason for the demise of Roe v. Wade.   Did its demise have an effect on the American people (not just you ... think of the other 333 million)?

Certainly many feel it has an effect on them as far as wanting to exercise it. However, no one is denied completely getting an abortion. Some states are getting bullshit overzealous but that will more than likely change after January of '25 via the ballot box.

And now in the abstract, do you really want to maintain that a PotUS has no effect on the American people?

People and nation as a whole, to an extent yes but there is very little that affects every single one. As far as going all draconian, we have a Congress and Supreme Court to make sure that shit doesn't happen.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.31  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.29    3 weeks ago
why do you care what college students in new york are doing ?  for that matter , why do you care what Hamas is doing ? 

I don't. Interested, yes. Anything that fucks up American life like the agitators and college kids are and the fact that I don't want WWIII to propagate starting with the ME, is of concern. And while it doesn't affect me personally, I have a little compassion for all linvolved.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.32  TᵢG  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.30    3 weeks ago
And the question is you and yours NEGATIVELY.

Not sure where this comes from since I was always talking about the American people.   But clearly it makes no sense for you to talk only about yourself in this matter.   The question, for serious discussion, is the effect Trump has on the American people. 

Certainly many feel it has an effect on them as far as wanting to exercise it. However, no one is denied completely getting an abortion. Some states are getting bullshit overzealous but that will more than likely change after January of '25 via the ballot box.

You do not recognize the effect that restricting abortions to 6 weeks (as recently with Florida) and banning abortions altogether (see below) has on the American people??:

More details on the current status of abortion in each state are below.

STATE

STATUS OF ABORTION

LEGAL UNTIL

MORE DETAILS

Alabama
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Arkansas
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Idaho
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances. In 2023, the Idaho Supreme Court ruled there is no constitutional right to an abortion. In 2024, the U.S. Supreme Court will decide whether the state’s ban violates a federal law requiring emergency care for any patient, including abortions for pregnant women in dire situations.
Indiana
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances. In 2023, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled that the state’s abortion ban did not violate the state Constitution. A separate challenge to the ban, by residents who argue it violates their religious rights, is ongoing.
Kentucky
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances. In 2022, voters rejected a ballot measure that would have amended the state Constitution to say it contains no right to an abortion.
Louisiana
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Mississippi
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Missouri
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
North Dakota
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Oklahoma
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
South Dakota
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Tennessee
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Texas
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances. Private citizens can sue abortion providers and those who assist patients seeking an abortion after about six weeks of pregnancy.
West Virginia
Banned
Abortion is banned in almost all circumstances.
Florida
Gestational limit
6 weeks
Abortion is banned after about six weeks of pregnancy. The Florida Supreme Court ruled in 2024 that the state Constitution’s privacy protections do not extend to abortion, overturning decades of legal precedent and allowing the ban to take effect.
Georgia
Gestational limit
6 weeks
Abortion is banned after about six weeks of pregnancy. In 2023, the State Supreme Court reversed a lower court’s ruling that the ban was void. The lower court must still weigh whether the ban violates the state’s Constitution.
South Carolina
Gestational limit
6 weeks
Abortion is banned after about six weeks of pregnancy. The South Carolina Supreme Court upheld the ban in 2023, after ruling earlier in the year that a similar ban from 2021 was unconstitutional.
Nebraska
Gestational limit
12 weeks
Abortion is banned after 12 weeks of pregnancy. Gov. Jim Pillen signed the ban in 2023, after weeks of debate in the unicameral Legislature and a failed attempt to pass a six-week ban.
North Carolina
Gestational limit
12 weeks
Abortion is banned after 12 weeks of pregnancy. A federal judge temporarily blocked a provision that providers said could have limited their ability to offer the abortion pill to patients in the first weeks of pregnancy.
Arizona
Gestational limit
15 weeks
Abortion is banned after 15 weeks of pregnancy. Officials warned that a near-total ban on abortions from 1864 may be briefly enforceable this summer until a repeal of that law, passed in May, takes effect in the fall.
Utah
Gestational limit
18 weeks
Abortion is banned after 18 weeks of pregnancy. In 2023, a judge temporarily blocked a law that would have halted most abortions in the state by requiring the procedure to be performed in hospitals. A separate ban on most abortions was indefinitely blocked by a judge in 2022, and the State Supreme Court is expected to rule on that ban in 2024.
Iowa
Ban blocked
22 weeks
An Iowa district court temporarily blocked a ban on abortion after about six weeks of pregnancy, after lawmakers passed the ban in July 2023. The State Supreme Court is expected to rule on that ban by June. In 2023, a deadlocked State Supreme Court kept a nearly identical six-week ban from 2018 permanently blocked.
Montana
Ban blocked
Viability
The Legislature passed 10 anti-abortion laws in 2023, including a ban on the most commonly used procedure in the second trimester. That restriction and several others have been blocked by a court. The Montana Supreme Court has ruled that the state Constitution protects the right to an abortion.
Wyoming
Ban blocked
Viability
In 2023, a judge in Wyoming temporarily blocked an abortion ban that briefly took effect that year and temporarily blocked a separate law that explicitly banned the use of abortion pills. A ban on most abortions that was enacted earlier and triggered by the Dobbs decision remains indefinitely blocked.

People and nation as a whole, to an extent yes but there is very little that affects every single one. 

Who said anything about affecting every single American ?    Your ' rebuttals ' are getting ridiculous.

As far as going all draconian, we have a Congress and Supreme Court to make sure that shit doesn't happen.

Look at the above chart.   This is in the hands of the states.   SCotUS put it in their hands.   Congress has not acted to address this.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.33  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.32    3 weeks ago
Who said anything about affecting every single American

You..............

I was always talking about the American people. 
 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.1.34  afrayedknot  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.32    3 weeks ago

“Look at the above chart.”

And in the perusing all it does is signal the opposite of leadership…a pandering partisan paradigm.

And let us never forget or somehow dismiss the demonstrable lack of empathy, understanding, or character for any and all that excuse such impropriety. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.35  TᵢG  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.33    3 weeks ago

Jim, what is the point of pretending to misunderstand something so basic?   It just ruins one's credibility.  

When one speaks of affecting the American people that NEVER means affecting every single individual.

Who could possibly be so stupid as to believe you think 'Trump has an effect on the lives of the American people' means that Trump has an effect on every single person in the United States?

When a politician claims that the American people want X or do not want Y do you actually think the politician is stating that every single American wants X or does not want Y??   (Hint:  'the American people' is a reference to a group)

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.36  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.35    3 weeks ago

Then I suggest you start using a quantifier with your statements like some, or a majority or something else. Otherwise you are propagating a sweeping generalization. Not a good look.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.37  TᵢG  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.36    3 weeks ago

Blame yourself Jim.   'The American people' always refers to us as a group.   The phrase "has an effect on our lives" does not mean "has an effect on the life of every single individual".   This is basic English so stop with the feeble attempts to save face.

Otherwise you are propagating a sweeping generalization.

And here you dig the hole even deeper with this nonsense (a complete misunderstanding of the concept of sweeping generalization).


  • Illegal immigration has an effect on our lives
  • Inflation has an effect on our lives
  • The Vietnam war had an effect on our lives
  • Trump downplaying COVID-19 had an effect on our lives
  • Higher taxes has an effect on our lives
  • Pollution has an effect on our lives
  • The reversal of Roe v Wade has an effect on our lives
  • Social media has an effect on our lives

You are trying to claim that it is normal to interpret the above as an enumeration of every one of the 333 million USA residents:

  • Illegal immigration affects every single individual in the USA
  • Inflation affects every single individual in the USA
  • The Vietnam war affected every single individual in the USA
  • Trump downplaying COVID-19 affected every single individual in the USA
  • Higher taxes affected every single individual in the USA
  • Pollution affected every single individual in the USA
  • The reversal of Roe v Wade affected every single individual in the USA
  • Social media affects every single individual in the USA

And thus to dispute the claim you think you simply need to state "it does not affect me".    Just 1 out of 333 million and the claim is disputed.   LOL

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2  Jeremy Retired in NC    4 weeks ago
and now businesses struggle to find workers in several sectors of the economy

Then they need to change their approach to attract LEGAL workers.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2    4 weeks ago
Then they need to change their approach to attract LEGAL workers.

The current unemployment rate in Florida is 3.2% and with many major corporations in Florida, you can be assured that they have been trying with many different approaches. 

Instead of the politicians pointing fingers which they have done for decades, they could do their job and revamp our entire immigration system which at best is FUBAR. It would create workers, allow employers to expand and hire more workers and move the economy in the right direction. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Kavika @2.1    4 weeks ago
Instead of the politicians pointing fingers which they have done for decades, they could do their job and revamp our entire immigration system which at best is FUBAR.

That can only even remotely be done after a more secure border.  Under the current administration, that doesn't exist and it appears it won't happen.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

the "job creators" funding the republican party don't want a secure border.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

So THATS why the Democrats have fought all attempts to secure the border.  Gotcha.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

Not right now they don't

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.5  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

no minimum wages to be paid, no federal labor laws to be concerned about, no taxes to be withheld...

maga nirvana...

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.2  evilone  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2    4 weeks ago
Then they need to change their approach to attract LEGAL workers.

If you read the article the business owners are asking Congress to fix the system so they can get more LEGAL workers. A large part of the problem is the cost of VISAs.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.2.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  evilone @2.2    4 weeks ago

Then let the prospective employers pay for the visas of those they want. A company I worked at did just that with people from another country for their expertise.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.2.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

If i remember correctly the employer has to pay the fees which range up to $1500 per applicant by law.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.2.3  evilone  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
Then let the prospective employers pay for the visas of those they want.

Does that cost filter through to the customer like taxes and other things?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3  Nerm_L    4 weeks ago

Why can't these farmers depend upon legal immigrants to do this work?  Apparently being in the country legally means immigrants have more opportunities for better paying jobs.  Legal immigrants can't be forced to do slave work for slave wages.

So, the immigration reform that Biden wants will also deal a blow to farmers around the country.  Biden will just take us another step closer to replacing our own farmers with free trade.  Biden won't give up his strawberry ice cream in solidarity with farmers.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.1  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @3    3 weeks ago
Why can't these farmers depend upon legal immigrants to do this work?

One reason is that many of them can get work that pays better-- so why should they take jobs that pay very little?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
3.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @3.1    3 weeks ago
One reason is that many of them can get work that pays better-- so why should they take jobs that pay very little?

And Biden wants to give legal status to illegal immigrants.  So, what impact do you think Biden's policy would have on farmers?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

Between this and the recently passed 6-week abortion ban I wonder how long DeSantis' shelf life is going to be, come November.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5    3 weeks ago

He Has a 54% approval rating in Florida.  Outside the left wing bubble with their obsessions, he’s doing fine.  But when that’s all you read, you end up with very distorted perceptions of reality, I guess. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    3 weeks ago

Outside the left wing bubble, is that similar to the right wing bubble that some of our members enjoy?

DeSantis has one of the highest disapproval ratings for governors: poll

.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kavika @5.1.1    3 weeks ago

54% approval is 54% approval. [deleted]

[] More money was spent attacking DeSantis than any other Presidential candidate this primary cycle yet he still would cruise to victory in florida if he wasn't term limited. That's despite the millions in attack ads and the dishonest media (remember all those stories designed to manipulate the ignorant about Disney beating him?) promoting lies and conspiracies going all the back to covid.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.2    3 weeks ago

Actually his approval rating is 51% as of end of April it's in the link.

I also remember all the lawsuits that overturned his ''mandates''....

Cheers.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    3 weeks ago

That was before the new restrictive abortion law was passed.  When the women of Florida are made to understand what that means, that many women don't even know they're pregnant until after that, let's see where that approval rating goes. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

it’s from April 18th, 2024.

It’s matches his approval rating in early 2022  before his landslide reelection.  

The abortion law has  had zero effect on his approval rating

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.1.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.5    3 weeks ago

The abortion legislation went into effect on May 1st.  It will be on the ballot for the November elections.  Let's see what happens then. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.7  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.2    3 weeks ago
54% approval is 54% approval. Imagine not understanding math and believing a a 54% approval rating means a politician is in trouble among his constituents.. 

What is amazing is your ability to make up things that I never said. I simply pointed out the actual numbers with a link and that he had the highest disapproval rating of any governor. 

More money was spent attacking DeSantis than any other Presidential candidate this primary cycle yet he still would cruise to victory in florida if he wasn't term limited.  That's despite the millions in attack ads and  the dishonest media  (remember all those stories designed to manipulate the ignorant about  Disney beating him?) promoting lies and conspiracies going all the back to covid. 

DeSantis was odds on favorite to win the Republican nomination with a huge war-chest and he had just won the governorship in a runaway except for the fact he was one of the worst candidates in history with a team that resembled the ''the gang that couldn't shoot straight''..

He was able to snach defeat from the jaws of victory. Numerous articles and post mordums have been written by republicans listing every, and there were a lot of mistakes they made. There are so many I won't even link them there. 

Cheers.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.8  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.6    3 weeks ago
e abortion legislation went into effect on May 1s

This is beyond absurd.  

YOu believe voters didn't care when the law passed in 2023. They didn't care despite the law constantly  being attacked for a year in the media.  Didn't care in April when the Court said the law can go into effect on May 1.  But the law  actually going into effect will somehow cause outrage among people who were apparently too stupid to care when the law was being debated/passed? 

It will be on the ballot for the November elections

No it won't.  And your claim was about DeSantis, who is also not on the ballot.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.1.9  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.8    3 weeks ago

Maybe the voters didn't know or care much when the law was passed, but they're aware of the effect it is going to have on them NOW after IT WENT INTO EFFECT ON MAY 1st 2024 .  I knew there was going to be a November 2024 ballot and assumed it was the Federal elections ballot, rather than a special Florida one, maybe the 6 issues to be voted upon will still be a problem for your hero DeSantis.   

This USA Today article is dated April 23, 2024. and updated April 24, 2024.

"When the 6-week ban goes into effect, nearly all abortions after six weeks will be illegal in Florida. But, six months later, voters will have the chance to vote on a constitutional amendment to bring Florida's abortion laws back closer to what they were when Roe v. Wade was still in force."

LINK ->  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  seeder  Kavika     3 weeks ago
The abortion law has  had zero effect on his approval rating

We'll find out in November since the Florida Supreme Court allow it to be put on the ballot.

Florida Will Now Be Ground Zero for the Abortion Wars in 2024

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Quiet
6.1  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Kavika @6    3 weeks ago

Think ole Sean is in for a mighty big surprise, cause to surmise, this is one of the main reasons Trump and the GOP have been losing ground since ole Trumped up and stacked the deck in what is sure to be a ship wreck, and hopefully leaves the two GOP presidential wanna beez, swabbin the deck, of the Titanic wreck this Republican party has thrown the surprise out of

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7  devangelical    3 weeks ago

I think its hilarious that the maga clod hoppers and weed benders will lose their family farms to agribusiness conglomerates because of right wing xenophobes in congress that can't compromise to legislate, at their expense.

 
 

Who is online




41 visitors