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The astonishing radicalism of Florida’s new ban on abortion

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  kavika  •  2 weeks ago  •  97 comments

The astonishing radicalism of Florida’s new ban on abortion

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T





Rachel M. Cohen   is a senior reporter for Vox covering social policy. She focuses on housing, schools, homelessness, child care, and abortion rights, and has been reporting on these issues for more than a decade.





In spring 2022, just months before the US Supreme Court   overturned   Roe v. Wade ,   Republicans in Florida   passed a law   banning   abortion   after 15 weeks of pregnancy, down from the previous legal threshold of 24 weeks. It took effect that summer, but advocates for reproductive rights challenged it in state court as unconstitutional.

One year later, Republicans in Florida took even more aggressive action against reproductive freedom:   Gov. Ron DeSantis   signed a new bill to restrict abortion at six weeks of pregnancy. But the fate of that law rested on what the court would decide about the 15-week ban. If it decided that ban was legal, the six-week ban would be, too.

This week, nearly two years after challengers first filed their lawsuit, the Florida Supreme Court finally issued its ruling: The 15-week ban   is constitutional   under state law, and therefore the six-week ban will take effect in 30 days, on May 1.

In practical terms, six weeks is a total ban. Many people do not even know they’re pregnant by then. Even if they are aware, Florida requires patients seeking abortions to complete two in-person doctor visits with a 24-hour waiting period in between, a challenging logistical burden to meet before 15 weeks and a nearly impossible one before six.

Not only will the six-week ban decimate abortion access for Florida residents, but it will also significantly curtail care for people across the South, who have been traveling to Florida from more restrictive states since   Roe   was overturned. According to the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research group, there were 8,940 more abortions in Florida in 2023 compared to 2020—a 12 percent increase that researchers attribute largely to travel from out-of-state patients. Residents of Florida’s bordering states face either a total ban (Alabama) or a six-week ban (Georgia).

More broadly, the Guttmacher Institute has found that six-week bans have massive impacts on the provision of abortion. In South Carolina, the number of abortions provided in the formal   health care   system   decreased by 71 percent   the month after the state started enforcing a six-week ban on abortions in 2023. Prior research found declines of close to 50 percent in abortion caseloads in   Georgia   and in   Texas   after their six-week bans went into effect.

Florida’s six-week abortion ban is particularly restrictive


When the six-week ban takes effect next month, Florida will become one of the most restrictive states in the country on abortion access.






Florida’s law not only bans abortion after six weeks but also bans abortion by telemedicine and requires any medication abortion to be dispensed in person, which effectively outlaws mail orders of the pills. (Researchers   have affirmed   there is no medical need for   abortion pills   to be administered in the physical presence of a health care provider.) At the time it was passed, no other state   had a six-week ban with a requirement for two in-person doctor visits and no option for telehealth.

While the law   includes exceptions   for rape and incest, it requires anyone claiming those exceptions to provide a copy of a police report, medical record, or court order — even though victims often do not involve law enforcement. The executive director of the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence   has called these exceptions   “meaningless” and “harmful.”

Six weeks is simply not enough time for the vast majority of people to get abortion care, especially if remote options are off the table. In medical terms, pregnancy is measured from the date of the last menstrual period, not from the date of conception, and   up to 25 percent of women   don’t have regular menstrual cycles, meaning a missed period wouldn’t signal anything unusual. It can take at least three weeks for a pregnancy hormone to appear on a home pregnancy test, and while blood tests can also confirm pregnancies, Florida   health care professionals testified   that it can take weeks to months to get an appointment with an OB-GYN, with wait times particularly long for low-income and Black Floridians.

Once a pregnancy is confirmed, a patient, under Florida law, would need to schedule an ultrasound with an abortion provider. Scheduling these appointments takes even more time. Annie Filkowski, the policy director of Florida Alliance of Planned Parenthood Affiliates, told Vox in 2023 that wait times at their clinics average about 20 days.

These barriers would prove virtually insurmountable for most people, and even harder for minors in Florida, who are required by law to either get parental consent to end a pregnancy or petition a judge to bypass their parents.






The Republican state senator   who sponsored the six-week ban, Erin Grall,   conceded a teenager   would be unlikely to go through that legal process within six weeks. “I think the purpose of this bill is to say that when there is life, we are going to protect it,” Grall said.

“There are 4.6 million women of reproductive age in Florida, along with trans and nonbinary people who may need an abortion,” said Kelly Baden, the vice president of public policy at the Guttmacher Institute. “With the regional clustering of bans in neighboring and nearby states, Floridians will have to travel across at least two state lines to get care after six weeks.”

Kris Lawler, the board president of the Tampa Bay Abortion Fund, announced Monday that their network stands ready to help people access care in the wake of this decision. “Abortion is essential healthcare, and while they might make it significantly harder to do so, no politician can stop us from accessing our basic right to abortion,” they said.

Florida provides critical reproductive health care for people throughout the South


The abortion bans in Florida will add strain to an already restrictive landscape that people in neighboring states like Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama have been contending with since the overturn of   Roe.

When the six-week ban takes effect, people in the South will need to travel even farther for care. In 2023, North Carolina reduced access to legal abortion from 20 weeks down to 12, and also passed rules requiring patients to make two in-person doctor visits, with a 72-hour break in between. The only Southern state that allows abortion past the first trimester is Virginia, and beyond that the closest options are Washington, DC, and Illinois.

Total incidence of abortion   has actually gone up   since the overturn of   Roe   v.   Wade ,   but   an underlying reason is because travel out of state for abortion has also gone up, offsetting some of the newer restrictions in states with bans. Yet such travel is difficult and expensive, and it’s no guarantee that every patient looking to end a pregnancy will all be able to make a trip that’s hundreds of miles longer than before.

Florida voters could overturn the bans in November


One glimmer of hope for people in Florida and the entire South is a second ruling the Florida Supreme Court   issued on Monday : A ballot measure to protect abortion access in the state can move forward.

The measure, which would require support from at least 60 percent of Florida voters to pass, would amend Florida’s constitution to protect abortion rights up to the point of fetal viability, or typically between 22 and 24 weeks of a pregnancy. Voters will have the opportunity to weigh in on this question in November.

Past polling indicates extreme abortion restrictions are not supported by the Florida public. In one survey conducted by Florida Atlantic University,   67 percent of Floridians   said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while just 12 percent supported a total ban. Another survey from 2023, led by the Public Religion Research Institute, found   64 percent of Americans   backed abortion in all or most cases.

All seven   ballot measures   that have been advanced to protect abortion rights since the fall of   Roe   have passed. But those in red and purple states like Montana, Kentucky, Kansas, and Ohio did not have to reach a 60 percent threshold, receiving backing between 52 and 59 percent. Advocates for abortion rights expect the Florida campaign to be particularly expensive, running upwards of $100 million.

“It has never been more essential that the right to abortion be enshrined in the state constitution to protect access for Floridians and that we elect federal champions to protect the right to abortion at the national level,” said Reproductive Freedom for All President Mini Timmaraju. “We’re committed to working beside our partners on the ground to ensure that happens.”

Laura Goodhue, executive director of the Florida Alliance of Planned Parenthood Affiliates, said the Supreme Court’s decision “paves the way for Florida voters to stop these ridiculous abortion bans once and for all.”

Update, April 2, 2024, 3:35 pm:   This story was originally published on April 5, 2023, and has been updated multiple times. Most recently, significant changes were made following the Florida Supreme Court’s ruling that the 15-week abortion ban is constitutional.



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Kavika
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Kavika     2 weeks ago

Florida’s law not only bans abortion after six weeks but also bans abortion by telemedicine and requires any medication abortion to be dispensed in person, which effectively outlaws mail orders of the pills. (Researchers  have affirmed  there is no medical need for  abortion pills  to be administered in the physical presence of a health care provider.) At the time it was passed, no other state had a six-week ban with a requirement for two in-person doctor visits and no option for telehealth.
While the law  includes exceptions  for rape and incest, it requires anyone claiming those exceptions to provide a copy of a police report, medical record, or court order — even though victims often do not involve law enforcement. The executive director of the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence  has called these exceptions  “meaningless” and “harmful.”

DeSantis has succeeded, he's taken us back to the 1950's. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @1    2 weeks ago

trump said he'd release a statement soon. probably after he releases his tax returns and his newer, cheaper healthcare plan.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  devangelical @1.1    2 weeks ago

I wouldn't hold my breath for anything sensible from Walking Eagle.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

meh, I hold my breath when I see him on TV...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kavika @1    2 weeks ago

Were things that backward and primitive in the 1950s?  The first time I went to Florida it was in the early 1950s.  I can remember a separate water fountain in a department store with a sign saying "COLORED ONLY" and when I went to my favourite spot in the bus to sit at the back the driver demanded that I come up front, but I didn't, so he said he would not drive until I did, and the people up front started yelling at me so I had to acquiesce.  I guess I was pretty naive about absence of civil rights, having come from Canada where there were no such things happening.  (A side note: Why is the word "naive" red-underlined?  How do Americans spell it?)  Anyway, continuing - I hope that what the Florida government has gone and done with this will be their swan song before experiencing the effect of having committed suicide. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.2.1  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2    one week ago
A side note: Why is the word "naive" red-underlined?

Why is the word red-underlined?

I don't know for sure but my guess its because its COLORED-ONLY!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @1.2.1    one week ago

I didn't know you were an etymologist.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2.2    6 days ago
I didn't know you were an etymologist.

I'm not.

(I've never really liked insects-- let alone wanting to actually study them. Yuk!)

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.2.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @1.2.3    6 days ago

Yeah, ety, ento, what's the difference anyway?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.3  cjcold  replied to  Kavika @1    2 weeks ago

Could it be that DeSantis is running folk out of Florida just to save their lives from the coming AGW spawned much more powerful hurricanes?

What a nice guy!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.3.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @1.3    2 weeks ago

Florida’s population increased by 1.9% in 2022. In 2023, Florida’s population increased by 1.6%.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
1.3.2  Split Personality  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.3.1    2 weeks ago

So the increase has slowed down as unwanted births increase

and retirees that can still afford to, flee to areas with a cheaper cost of living.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.3.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @1.3.2    2 weeks ago
So the increase has slowed down

No, the increase from 2020-2021 was 1.1%.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.3.4  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.3.1    6 days ago
Florida’s population increased by 1.9% in 2022. In 2023, Florida’s population increased by 1.6%.

So are you arguing that they need to pass legislation making abortions legal?

Or if the population keeps increasing at those rates . . .  perhaps even making it mandatory? 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.3.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Krishna @1.3.4    4 days ago

No argument, just some facts.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2  Gsquared    2 weeks ago
The Republican state senator   who sponsored the six-week ban, Erin Grall,      conceded a teenager      would be unlikely to go through that legal process within six weeks. 

They admit that their 6 week limit will act as a total ban.

It will take 60% of the vote to pass the ballot measure to protect abortion access.  Is that possible in Florida?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1  devangelical  replied to  Gsquared @2    2 weeks ago

pro-choice is running at 62% among voters in florida in the most recent poll I've seen...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  devangelical @2.1    2 weeks ago

That's encouraging.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.1.2  cjcold  replied to  devangelical @2.1    2 weeks ago

Yet they keep electing a far-right wing fascist as governor.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.3  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @2.1.2    6 days ago

giving away free everglades air boat rides to elected republicans is always an option...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.4  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @2.1.3    5 days ago

free swamp swimming lessons ...

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2  Gordy327  replied to  Gsquared @2    2 weeks ago
It will take 60% of the vote to pass the ballot measure to protect abortion access.  Is that possible in Florida?

Here's hoping. A 6 week limit is just a "limit" in name only, when in actuality it is as good as a ban.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2    2 weeks ago
Here's hoping.

Has any abortion "ban" been passed when it has been put up to the voters instead of just GOP majority lawmakers?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2.2  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.1    2 weeks ago
Has any abortion "ban" been passed when it has been put up to the voters instead of just GOP majority lawmakers?

This is Florida we're talking about. Florida voters did elect DeSantis after all. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Gsquared  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.2    2 weeks ago
This is Florida we're talking about.

Thus, my concern.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2.4  Gordy327  replied to  Gsquared @2.2.3    2 weeks ago

Mine too. Florida, the state where the sun gives you a tan and melts your brain jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.4    2 weeks ago

Flori-duh

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2.6  Gordy327  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.5    2 weeks ago

Facts!

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.2.7  Ozzwald  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2.2    2 weeks ago
This is Florida we're talking about.

You think Florida is redder than Alabama?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2.8  Gordy327  replied to  Ozzwald @2.2.7    2 weeks ago

It's close. Florida is definitely competing for the title.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.2.9  cjcold  replied to  Gordy327 @2.2    2 weeks ago

Many women don't even know that they are pregnant until the third or fourth week. Some even longer.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @2    2 weeks ago

Yes, it is possible, G. The poll I saw stated that was at 62%.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.3.1  Gordy327  replied to  Kavika @2.3    2 weeks ago
Yes, it is possible, G. The poll I saw stated that was at 62%.

Assuming the measure does pass by vote, I wonder if lawmakers will attempt to enact new legislation in an attempt to get around the measure? Some anti abortionists seem rather vindictive like that.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.3.2  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @2.3    2 weeks ago

Good.  Let's hope that all of those polled actually vote.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.3.3  Gordy327  replied to  Gsquared @2.3.2    2 weeks ago
Let's hope that all of those polled actually vote.

That would help get the measure passed. lol

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.3.4  Gsquared  replied to  Gordy327 @2.3.1    2 weeks ago
Assuming the measure does pass by vote, I wonder if lawmakers will attempt to enact new legislation in an attempt to get around the measure?

Kansas legislators are attempting to impose new restrictions and other anti-abortion measures in spite of the vote for a constitutional provision protecting abortion rights.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.3.5  Gsquared  replied to  Gordy327 @2.3.3    2 weeks ago
That would help get the measure passed.

It may seem obvious, but what percentage of people polled actually vote?  We know that Americans have notoriously low turnout numbers.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.3.6  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Gordy327 @2.3.1    2 weeks ago
Assuming the measure does pass by vote, I wonder if lawmakers will attempt to enact new legislation in an attempt to get around the measure? Some anti abortionists seem rather vindictive like that.

Based on their past votes I'm sure that they will, Gordy.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.3.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gsquared @2.3.4    2 weeks ago

Do these legislators even care about what their constituents want?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.3.8  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.3.7    2 weeks ago

not after they've been elected, and then declare a mandate by the voters, to do whatever their largest contributors want them to do...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.3.9  Gsquared  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.3.7    2 weeks ago

They only care about what their narrow group of base voters want.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.3.10  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Trout Giggles @2.3.7    2 weeks ago
Do these legislators even care about what their constituents want? Doesn't seem so, Trout. They consider those that oppose them to be ''woke'' unfortunetly the current crop of politicians are  in  a ''coma''.
 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.3.11  Gordy327  replied to  Gsquared @2.3.4    2 weeks ago
Kansas legislators are attempting to impose new restrictions and other anti-abortion measures in spite of the vote for a constitutional provision protecting abortion rights.

A clear indication they do not care about what voters want and are just on a power trip. 

 We know that Americans have notoriously low turnout numbers.

That's the problem. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.3.12  devangelical  replied to  Gordy327 @2.3.11    5 days ago

... combined with a complete lack of comprehension regarding mathematics.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.4  Krishna  replied to  Gsquared @2    6 days ago
It will take 60% of the vote to pass the ballot measure to protect abortion access.  Is that possible in Florida?

While they are conservative on some issues, polls consistently show that most people don't want Big Government interfering in their lives by dictating their personal healthcare decisions!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3  JBB    2 weeks ago

Biden - Harris - 2024

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
3.1  Ozzwald  replied to  JBB @3    2 weeks ago
Biden - Harris - 2024

Republicans appear to be determined to self destruct.  None of their policies are supported by the majority of voters.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Ozzwald @3.1    5 days ago
Republicans appear to be determined to self destruct.

too bad they're not doing it on an individual basis...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.2  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @3.1.1    2 days ago

ffs, do the planet a favor maga...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4  charger 383    2 weeks ago

To make sure they can comply with this law Floridia should be willing to pay for a doctor appointment for every woman of childbearing age every week and require they be given paid time off from work and provided free transportation.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5  Trout Giggles    2 weeks ago
While the law   includes exceptions   for rape and incest, it requires anyone claiming those exceptions to provide a copy of a police report, medical record, or court order — even though victims often do not involve law enforcement. The executive director of the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence   has called these exceptions   “meaningless” and “harmful.”

Meaningless and harmful?!?!?!? Why not talk to the survivors and ask them if those exceptions are meaningless and harmful

I see a lot of abandoned babies turning up in Florida

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @5    2 weeks ago

The vagina police - JFC - reminds me of the FB meme from the other week - if women's vaginas shot bullets they wouldn't try to regulate them then

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
5.1.1  Gordy327  replied to  Tessylo @5.1    2 weeks ago
The vagina police - JFC - reminds me of the FB meme from the other week - if women's vaginas shot bullets they wouldn't try to regulate them then

And condoms would be made out of kevlar jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @5.1    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Tessylo @5.1    2 weeks ago

yeah but most of maga can only return fire of 1 shot every 2 hours, without a prescription, if they're in shape...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6  Hal A. Lujah    2 weeks ago

The solution for Florida women is obvious.  Schedule a standing weekly appointment for an abortion.  That way if your method of birth control happens to fail you have a backup.  Belt and suspenders.  Absolute birth control is expensive in Florida.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6.1  charger 383  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6    2 weeks ago

and the state must pay for it and provide doctors and staff on standby and fund the clinics to enable everyone to comply with their law 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.1  George  replied to  charger 383 @6.1    2 weeks ago

While i agree with a womans right to choose that is ridiculous, Does the state have to provide transportation because they have drunk driving laws? 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.2  devangelical  replied to  George @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

if the state is going to assume parental responsibility for the unborn, they need to financially support them.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
6.1.3  afrayedknot  replied to  George @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

“While i agree with a womans [sic] right to choose…”

…your saying such is what is ridiculous. [deleted][]

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.4  George  replied to  devangelical @6.1.2    2 weeks ago

Another spurious argument, they aren't assuming parental responsibility. that aside, if the parent is stupid enough to have a child they can't afford the state does have programs to support them. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
6.1.5  evilone  replied to  George @6.1.4    2 weeks ago
they aren't assuming parental responsibility.

They are creating a no win situation in a preverbal Nanny State. 

that aside, if the parent is stupid enough to have a child they can't afford the state does have programs to support them. 

Perhaps they should amend the law requiring sex for reproduction only and to make sure no one is having any fun require cameras in every bedroom, hotel room and "nail salon" across the state.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.1.6  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @6.1.4    2 weeks ago

I have two kids even though we were using birth control.  My kids are in the same boat with a total of five grandkids.  Birth control is not always effective, and that doesn’t make one stupid.  Stupid is the person who doesn’t get that.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.1.6    2 weeks ago

I used to work with a woman who had five children WHILE ON BIRTH CONTROL.  

Also, quite awesome rebuttal and truthful.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6.1.8  charger 383  replied to  George @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

The state should be willing to cover costs for passing stupid laws

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
6.1.9  Gordy327  replied to  George @6.1.4    2 weeks ago
The vagina police - JFC - reminds me of the FB meme from the other week - if women's vaginas shot bullets they wouldn't try to regulate them then

Abortion is cheaper, for both potential parent and the state. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.10  seeder  Kavika   replied to  George @6.1.4    2 weeks ago
Another spurious argument, they aren't assuming parental responsibility. that aside,

Actually it isn't, George. The state has taken away their right of choice which gives them no choice but to have the child and bear all responsibility for the child whether they can afford the child or not. 

Florida is the 3rd worst state for single parents in the country and there is no paid family leave in Florida.

Over 40% of children in Florida live in a single parent household that is close to 1.5 children.

Florida Continues to Rank Poorly on Child Well-Being

if the parent is stupid enough to have a child they can't afford the state does have programs to support them.

George, both you and I and the world knows that there are many children born that were not part of an act of recreation. So let's drop that nonsensical arguement.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.11  George  replied to  Kavika @6.1.10    2 weeks ago
George, both you and I and the world knows that there are many children born that were not part of an act of recreation. So let's drop that nonsensical arguement.

That comment is intellectually lazy on your part, you created an argument that I never made than dismissed it. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.12  seeder  Kavika   replied to  George @6.1.11    2 weeks ago
That comment is intellectually lazy on your part, you created an argument that I never made than dismissed it. 

Spell check changed procreation to recreation...LOL now that changed the meaning it should read ''many children born that were not part of an act of procreation''....

Not intellectually lazy at all, in fact as my nookomis (grandmother) said on many occasions ''besides Animiki (granny called me that it means Little Thunder) having brass balls that boy got some niinindib (lots of brains) shinob, (same as vato)

No one in their right mind argued with Nookomis she would let the Wiindigo loose on you.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.13  George  replied to  Kavika @6.1.12    2 weeks ago
Spell check changed procreation to recreation...LOL now that changed the meaning it should read ''many children born that were not part of an act of procreation''...

Much better LOL, And i'm pro-choice and Florida's law is over reaching in my opinion, but demanding the state provide medical check-ups and support the children is just ridiculous. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.14  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @6.1.12    2 weeks ago

I've never, ever, in my life, had sex to procreate, and I have 3 grown children. I guess their mother had a different idea.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
6.1.15  JBB  replied to  George @6.1.13    2 weeks ago

Nope, this is where your rightwing logic, if you can call it that, completely breaks down. The relatively low societal costs of providing basic support and healthcare to society's poorest children is nothing compared with the societal costs of lifetimes of ill health, dependency, disability and associated non-productivity...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.1.16  seeder  Kavika   replied to  George @6.1.13    2 weeks ago
Much better LOL, And i'm pro-choice and Florida's law is over reaching in my opinion, but demanding the state provide medical check-ups and support the children is just ridiculous. 

I'm pro choice as well and Florida is way overstepping their bounds with this law. Think about it this way, George. Florida has one of the worst situation for single parents and also poor parents, the foster care system is a fricking diaster. Now we have some ding dong politicians making it impossible to have an aberration in Florida, IMO they with their so called moral authority have decided to make a bad situation worse. That being the case they have a responsibility right on their heads and it's time for them to man up or women up. 

Nookomis said to tell you don't mess with Animiiki cuz I'm her favorite grandchild beside being wonderful, smart (I'm a member of Mensa Plus - we are a digit higher) and also a charter member of El Pachuco - Boyle Heights and the Low Rider Club of Atlantic Blvd. Also a part time thespian and have played El Pachuco in the play Zoot Suit at the Mark Taper. See, I'm not Mexican the vato's call me El Indio that means ''the Indian''...

Cool eh ese?

Baamaapii (until later)

7858

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6.1.17  charger 383  replied to  George @6.1.4    2 weeks ago

Yes, if the state is stupid enough to prohibit them from fixing the problem, then all costs are on the state.  

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
6.1.18  Thomas  replied to  charger 383 @6.1.17    2 weeks ago

Yeah...

Politicians don't think that way

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.2  cjcold  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6    2 days ago
The solution for Florida women is obvious

Move to California.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.2.1  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @6.2    2 days ago

move anywhere the US constitution still has meaning...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
7  charger 383    2 weeks ago

Those opposed to abortion must think mistakes should not be corrected. Pencils have erasers for a reason.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
7.1  Gordy327  replied to  charger 383 @7    2 weeks ago
Those opposed to abortion must think mistakes should not be corrected. Pencils have erasers for a reason.

And the one making the "mistake" should be punished for it. Cruelty is the point of abortion restrictions.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8  devangelical    2 weeks ago

the anti-choice crowd really only wants to save the unborn with 2 white parents, but they obscure that with religious dogma.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
8.1  charger 383  replied to  devangelical @8    2 weeks ago

problem is that 2 white parents deserve to have the choice as much as all the others, 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.1  devangelical  replied to  charger 383 @8.1    2 weeks ago

you'll never get past the gates of thumper heaven with that attitude mister...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.2  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

but don't worry, the place is empty inside...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9  JBB    2 weeks ago

"How to turn a red state blue for a thousand Ken?"

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1  devangelical  replied to  JBB @9    one week ago

this is one of the reasons radical rwnj's want to take away women's voting rights...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.1.1  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @9.1    one week ago

I saw some thumper author on TV claim that giving women the right to vote has led to all of our problems today...

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
10  Thrawn 31    2 weeks ago

Ladies, if you don't already know, the aboretion ban is purely a means to force you all back into the home and servitude. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1  devangelical  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10    2 weeks ago

thumpers sure have taken all the fun out of fundamental ...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.1  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @10.1    2 weeks ago

... and doubled down on mental.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.1.2  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @10.1.1    one week ago

plenty of fish, in a barrel...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.2  devangelical  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10    one week ago

barefoot, pregnant, and zero rights...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.2.1  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @10.2    one week ago

christo-fascist nirvana.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
10.3  devangelical  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10    one week ago

onward xtian nationalist lemmings ...

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
11  evilone    one week ago

I read yesterday the state Republicans killed calls to repeal by announcing lunch and the week's recess. The House Speaker later said he will not allow a repeal vote to come to the floor.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
11.1  devangelical  replied to  evilone @11    one week ago

florida fascists know that time is running out to stuff their pockets with lobbyist cash...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
11.1.1  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @11.1    one week ago

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
11.1.2  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @11.1.1    6 days ago

GOP party store...

 
 

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