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Why Ireland is the most pro-Palestinian nation in Europe

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  kavika  •  3 weeks ago  •  66 comments

Why Ireland is the most pro-Palestinian nation in Europe

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Ireland has become the latest nation to say it will intervene in the genocide case against Israel at the   International Court of Justice , in a reflection of the country’s long-standing position of solidarity with the Palestinian cause.


In a speech on Wednesday, Irish Foreign Minister Micheál Martin said that both the Hamas October 7 attack in Israel and Israel’s war in Gaza “represents the blatant violation of international law on a mass scale.”

The case was brought to the ICJ by South Africa, and in an initial ruling in January, the court ordered Israel to “take all measures within its power”   to prevent genocidal acts   in Gaza, but stopped short of accusing it of genocide.

According to reports, Ireland is expected to include in its intervention the argument that Israel’s blocking of food aid to Gaza could be considered an act of genocide.

A ‘shared colonial experience’


Ireland’s position on the Israel-Hamas conflict has made it an outlier among European governments. Zoë Lawlor, who leads the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign (IPSC), said there was “deep empathy and sympathy in Ireland with Palestinian people.”

That solidarity is largely born out of a shared experience of   subjugation by an occupying state . The island nation was under English and then British rule for more than 800 years, after Anglo-Norman invaders seized huge stretches of land from the native Irish in the 12th Century.

“Ireland was Britain’s oldest colony,” said Jane Ohlmeyer, a history professor at Trinity College Dublin, pointing out that Ireland was unlike other Western European states, many of which were themselves imperial powers.

“But like Palestine, (Ireland) had direct and sustained experience of imperialism,” she said. That “shared colonial experience” between the Irish and Palestinians “has undoubtedly shaped how people from Ireland engage with post-colonial conflicts.”


While under British control, Ireland was often subjected to violent and discriminatory rule from London, most infamously with the  Great Potato Famine  in the 1840s, during which roughly 1 million people are estimated to have died from hunger after the potato crop repeatedly failed. The failure of the British government to adequately help the starving population forced over 1 million more to emigrate.

Leo Varadkar, who   recently resigned as prime minister  of Ireland, alluded to that during St. Patrick’s Day commemorations at the White House this month, when he drew parallels   between the Irish and Palestinian experiences.

“Leaders often ask me why the Irish have such empathy for the Palestinian people. And the answer is simple: We see our history in their eyes,” Varadkar said. “A story of displacement, of dispossession, national identity questioned or denied, forced emigration, discrimination, and now, hunger.”


Jilan Wahba Abdalmajid, the Palestinian ambassador to Ireland, says Irish support comes from a history of shared experiences.

“This historical background that the Irish people themselves endured… they know exactly what’s the meaning of occupation, colonization, oppression, dispossession,” she told CNN. The Irish “know how the Palestinians feel when now we reach this degree” of hunger.

NGOs and top international human rights officials have warned that Israel’s restrictions on the entry of food aid will tip Gaza into famine. This month, the UN human rights chief, Volker Turk, said the practice may amount to using starvation as  a weapon of war .

After many failed attempts to regain its sovereignty, both violent and peaceful, Ireland was partitioned by the British in 1921. Part of the province of Ulster in the north of the island remained in the United Kingdom as Northern Ireland. The remaining territory left the union a year later, becoming known as the Irish Free State and later the Republic of Ireland.

Ohlmeyer contends that Ireland “provided the template for partition” in historic Palestine in 1948.


Both partitions were created largely along religious lines. Ulster was famously referred to as a “Protestant state for a Protestant people” after its inception in 1921. In 1917, the British government declared there should be “ a national home for the Jewish people ” within historic Palestine. The   United Nations presented a plan in 1947   to partition the land between Arabs and Jews, which the Palestinians rejected.


Ronald Storrs, the first British governor of Jerusalem,  described the plan for a Jewish homeland  in Palestine as “a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.”

Decades later, it was the Israeli occupation of   the remainder of historic Palestine   from 1967 onward that “consolidated Irish political and popular opinion behind the Palestinian cause,” author and historian Seán Gannon told CNN.

During and after the 30 years of sectarian violence in Northern Ireland, known as   the Troubles , the Palestinians’ struggle for liberation was seen by its residents through the prism of their own conflict. Republican Irish nationalists, campaigning to split from the UK, generally sympathized with Palestinians. British loyalists and unionists in Northern Ireland typically sided with Israel.

In 1980, the Republic of Ireland became the  first European Union member  to declare a need for an independent Palestinian state and has since pushed for a two-state solution. The Irish government describes peace in the Middle East as a “ key foreign policy priority ” and blames Israeli policies for “making peace more and more difficult to achieve.”


Palestinians a ‘domestic issue’ in Ireland


Ireland consistently criticized Israeli policies in the West Bank and Gaza before the Hamas attacks on October 7, and since then, politicians and the public have expressed concern over what has been largely viewed as a heavy-handed Israeli response.

Simon Harris, the country’s new prime minister, is unlikely to take a softer stance. Ireland’s   youngest-ever leader   highlighted the impact of the war on children in a speech to parliament in November, remarking: “You cannot build peace on the mass graves of children.”

Israel has not shied away from firing back at Ireland. Its heritage minister, Amihai Eliyahu, said in November that Palestinians in Gaza “can go to Ireland or deserts,” among other   incendiary comments   that Netanyahu has tried to distance himself from. In February, Israel’s ambassador to Ireland, Dana Erlich, said in an interview with radio station Newstalk that she only heard a “ one-sided view , portraying Israel as the only villain.”


When Emily Hand, an   Irish-Israeli girl , was released by Hamas after being held hostage for 50 days, Varadkar’s subsequent post on X saying she had been “lost” caused an  uproar in Israel.

The Irish ambassador was summoned to the Israeli foreign ministry, with Foreign Minister Eli Cohen accusing Varadkar of losing his “moral compass” and needing a “reality check.”

Opposition parties in Ireland have taken an even stronger stance than the government, particularly Sinn Féin, a party that supports the reunification of Ireland and is active on both sides of the border. Its leader, Mary Lou McDonald, has said “Gaza cannot become the graveyard of  international law ,” and has at times called for the Israeli ambassador  to be expelled.

“Ireland is one of the few countries where Palestine and Palestinian issues on the conflict is very much a domestic political issue,” Matt Carthy, Sinn Féin’s spokesperson on foreign affairs and defense, told CNN. “There has been an amount of pressure being put on the Irish government to be in the first instance very strong in its rhetoric.”


A galvanized population


Public support for the Palestinians has been put on display during nationwide demonstrations that have been held in cities and towns across Ireland since the Gaza war began.

“Sometimes, in all the roads in all the cities, I see the Palestinian flag,” said Abdalmajid, the ambassador. “It’s something that tells the Palestinians you are not alone in this world; there are other people in this world who know (how) you’re suffering.”

Lawlor, from the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign, has participated in demonstrations for the past 25 weeks in either her home city of Limerick or the capital, Dublin.

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“What we’re seeing in Gaza has really mobilized people to an extent I have never seen,” she said. “We’re a population that also had a famine imposed on us by a colonizing power. So, I think that’s very resonant with people here.”

A January  Amnesty International poll  showed that 71% of people in Ireland believed Palestinians were living under an   apartheid regime , while a poll in the Irish Times in Februrary showed 62% believed Israel’s attacks on Gaza were not justified.


For activists like Lawlor and the opposition Sinn Féin, the Irish government’s intervention at the ICJ was long overdue.

“Our experience of the peace process and our experience of the importance of international solidarity and interventions has made us acutely aware that this isn’t something we can just sit back and watch on our TV screens,” said Carthy.

“I do not think it is appropriate that a country like Ireland would have diplomatic relations with the State of Israel as it would with other states that aren’t in gross violation of international law,” he added. “And I think it would be a meaningful measure that the Irish government could take to expel the Israeli ambassador until the onslaught on Gaza is ended.”

LINK TO SEEDED ARTICLE; https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-ireland-is-the-most-pro-palestinian-nation-in-europe/ar-BB1kLiOs?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1c779490348c4faea477b952db45fc10&ei=11


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Kavika
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Kavika     3 weeks ago

Would like some thoughts on this without off-topic or deflection. The article and the reasoning presented brings up some interesting/debatable points. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

As long as Ireland is not pro-Hamas I am fine with whatever their stance is. If Ireland's own history has made them sympathetic to the Palestinians , it is what it is. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  JohnRussell @2    3 weeks ago
If Ireland's own history has made them sympathetic to the Palestinians , it is what it is. 

True, but in today's world, there has been a huge swing in support from Israel to Palestinians. The Irish reasoning is what I'm most interested in since it certainly isn't the only country to be colonized. 

Being pro-Palestinian doesn't mean that they are pro-Hamas, but many will interpret it that way. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @2.1    3 weeks ago
Being pro-Palestinian doesn't mean that they are pro-Hamas,


Perhaps pro-Hezbollah for more than a decade:

J'lem officials accuse Ireland of leading EU opposition to placing Hezbollah's "military wing" on continent's blacklist.

Government officials in Jerusalem accused Ireland on Wednesday of leading opposition inside the EU to placing Hezbollah, or at least its “military wing,” on the European Union’s terrorist black list. According to the officials, Ireland – which holds the EU’s rotating presidency – was supported in this position by Sweden and Finland at a working group on Tuesday that debated the issue.
 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Perhaps, not proven that I'm aware of but certainly a possibility.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

A group of Republican militants in Northern Ireland visited Lebanon's Hezbollah in 2018 and is suspected to have forged ties to import weapons, a report said.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.4  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.3    3 weeks ago

The New IRA, I wonder how many of he old IRA are mixed in with them.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

I don’t know their mortality / fertility rate.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
2.1.6  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

Once a terrorist with no regard for life, always a terrorist with no regard for life...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.1.7  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @2.1.6    3 weeks ago
Once a terrorist with no regard for life, always a terrorist with no regard for life...

Are they terrorists or are they legit freedom fighters against a country (England) that colonized them for centuries?

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
2.1.8  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @2.1.7    3 weeks ago

That's defined by their targets. If they're "freedom fighters" their targets were military or government, if not then they're terrorist scum.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
2.1.9  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @2.1    3 weeks ago
The Irish reasoning is what I'm most interested in since it certainly isn't the only country to be colonized.

And let's remember that the U.S.A. started out as colonies of Britain.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3  Gsquared    3 weeks ago

Did Carthy and the others call for the end of diplomatic relations with Russia and the expulsion of the Russian ambasssdor until the onslaught on Ukraine is ended?

I like Ireland a lot, and the Irish people are great, but the apparent bias here is troubling.  Given that, the Netanyahu government is a disaster for Israel, which even my Israeli cousins agree.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @3    3 weeks ago
Did Carthy and the others call for the end of diplomatic relations with Russia and the expulsion of the Russian ambasssdor until the onslaught on Ukraine is ended?

Not that I'm aware of but the Irish people have been very supportive of the Ukraine and private donations have been substantial.

I like Ireland a lot, and the Irish people are great, but the apparent bias here is troubling.  Given that, the Netanyahu government is a disaster for Israel, which even my Israeli cousins agree.

Ireland comparing the ''troubles'' with England and what is transpiring in Gaza/West Bank is interesting and IMO bears some debate, G.

And I agree Netanyahu is doing a lot more damage to Israel than good.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4  Drinker of the Wry    3 weeks ago

If I was an Israel diplomat and was selected to be an ambassador in Dublin, I would be asking myself, whom did I piss off.

There might be less than 1,000 Jews left in Ireland.

As the IRA began using terrorist tactics in the 60’s they started to identify more with the PLA.

During WWI, many Irish supported Germany.  Ireland also didn’t join the fight against Germany in WW II.

Irish Catholics still dream of getting all of Ireland back as Palestinians chant From the River to the Sea.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4    3 weeks ago
As the IRA began using terrorist tactics in the 60’s they started to identify more with the PLA.

Yes, that is true.

During WWI, many Irish supported Germany.  Ireland also didn’t join the fight against Germany in WW II.

True, again. 

Irish Catholics still dream of getting all of Ireland back as Palestinians chant From the River to the Sea.

Seems that way.

Are you saying Ireland is wrong in their support of Palestinians? What isn't clear is if the Irish support Hamas but they did condemn the 10/6 attacks by Hamas.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @4.1    3 weeks ago
Are you saying Ireland is wrong in their support of Palestinians?

Yes, why support people that fail at helping themselves?  

What isn't clear is if the Irish support Hamas but they did condemn the 10/6 attacks by Hamas.”

9 Oct 23, 

President Michael D Higgins has called for “an immediate end to the killing” that has occurred in Israel and Gaza since Hamas’ attack on Saturday.

In a statement issued today, the president said attacks on innocent civilians are “deeply reprehensible” and that “diplomatic failure” to address the conflict in the region is now “bearing terrible fruit”.

“May I, as President of Ireland, lend my voice to those internationally that have called for an immediate end to the killing which has, since Saturday following Hamas’ attack on Israel and the response to it, included so many civilians, young people and children, as well as older members of families,” he said.

Victimsplaing.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
Victimsplaing

Going from Ireland's history with the Brits is it really victimsplaing?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5  Drinker of the Wry    3 weeks ago

Ireland’s ignorance of Hamas has created a blind spot for them.  Sinn Féin sees some of itself in Hamas.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5    3 weeks ago
Ireland’s ignorance of Hamas has created a blind spot for them.  Sinn Féin sees some of itself in Hamas,

That is certainly possible, but with the Irish government and it seems the majority of citizens I'm sure they see Hamas as freedom fighters, that line between terrorists and freedom fights is mighty fine.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.1  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1    3 weeks ago
that line between terrorists and freedom fights is mighty fine.

How so?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.2  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.1    3 weeks ago
How so?

The IRA fought the British who had colonized their country for centuries with devastating results to the Irish, they took up arms and attacked the British army and in some instances attacked and killed civilians that supported the Brits or were in some way caught in the cross fire. 

What would you call the IRA, terrorists or freedom fighters? 

The same can be said of many groups called terrorists or those called Freedom Fighters. 

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.3  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.2    3 weeks ago
What would you call the IRA, terrorists or freedom fighters? 

Terrorists. What would you call Hamas?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.4  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.3    3 weeks ago
Terrorists.

Even though they were fighting the Brits who had killed many Irish, the great famine for starters they are still terrorists to you?

What would you call Hamas?

Killers and terrorists.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.5  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.4    3 weeks ago
Even though they were fighting the Brits who had killed many Irish, the great famine for starters they are still terrorists to you?

Provos, yes absolutely.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @5.1.4    3 weeks ago

I wonder how many innocent civilians the British killed in their centuries of empire. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.7  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.5    3 weeks ago
Provos, yes absolutely.

What about the groups that fought against the Provos? Local army units formed by the Brits and of course the war that was waged between the Catholics and Protestants, who where the FF, and who were the terrorists, Greg?

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.8  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.7    3 weeks ago

See 2.1.8. It's really not hard, as you said there's a fine line, once it's crossed it can't be uncrossed. 

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.9  GregTx  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.6    3 weeks ago

Are you equating?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.10  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.8    3 weeks ago

Civilians were killed by all of those groups. There is no easy answer in many cases and other are cut and dried.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.11  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.10    3 weeks ago
Civilians were killed by all of those groups.

Sure, but how many of those groups intentionally targeted civilians?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.12  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.11    3 weeks ago
Sure, but how many of those groups intentionally targeted civilians?

All of them.

As I said it is a fine line and when it comes to fighting the invader, it is vicious. 

Who is the terrorist in this photo Greg? It looks obvious but it isn't.

Oka_stare_down.jpg

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.13  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.12    3 weeks ago

Do you have some links?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.14  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.13    3 weeks ago

The photo is from 1990 on the Six Nations Reservation in Canada during the Oka War. A Canadian soldier facing off with an Ojibwe warrior, one inexperienced one very experienced. 

The question between them was, ''are you nervous?'' and ''do you know what a bullet does when it enters the body?''.

Both survived this encounter. 

The town was going to build a golf course over the cemetary/grave yard of the Mohawk on their land. The Mohawk said no, thus this is the first of many encounters between terrorist and defenders of their land. 

It's never simple Greg.

Think of this and give me an answer. 

The US bombed Japan in WWII, two atom bombs and thousands of incendiary bombs on Tokyo we were aiming at civilians and we succeeded, are we terrorists??

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.15  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.14    3 weeks ago
The US bombed Japan in WWII, two atom bombs and thousands of incendiary bombs on Tokyo we were aiming at civilians and we succeeded, are we terrorists??

No

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.16  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.15    3 weeks ago
No

But we targeted civilians tens of thousands of them and per your earlier comment that would make us terrorists. Double standard, Greg?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @5.1.16    3 weeks ago

Exactly, we should have sent Marines ashore to die with the Japanese Army and civilians.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.18  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.16    3 weeks ago

Not at all. Tell me Kavika, as a veteran, do you think we're terrorists?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.19  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.18    3 weeks ago
Not at all. Tell me Kavika, as a veteran, do you think we're terrorists?

Greg, according to your comments if you attack civilians your a terrorist, that is exactly what we did and it was on purpose, there is no getting around that. If we follow your logic we are terrorists in that instance.

I'll answer you this way, my father was the 2nd Marines at Tarawa (Betio) Saipan, Okinawa and a couple of other islands. He was wounded three times and was awarded a number of medal for valor. I asked him if it was right or wrong to drop the atomic bombs and fire bomb Tokyo...His answer was in Ojiwbe, so I knew that it was a hard question for him. He said ''I don't know Kavika'' all I know is that I don't ever want to face them again.

Nothing is clear cut or easy, Greg.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
5.1.20  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @5.1.19    3 weeks ago
Greg, according to your comments if you attack civilians your a terrorist, that is exactly what we did and it was on purpose, there is no getting around that. If we follow your logic we are terrorists in that instance.

No, we were a nation in a declared state of war with other nations. Perhaps you should look up the definition of terrorism. Sounds like his answer confirmed his agreement with the decision. 

Nothing is clear cut or easy, Greg.

Agreed...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.21  seeder  Kavika   replied to  GregTx @5.1.20    3 weeks ago
No, we were a nation in a declared state of war with other nations. Perhaps you should look up the definition of terrorism

Oh, I have, Gregg and debated it many times. 

The Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (Geneva, 1937) indeed defines "acts of terrorism" as "criminal acts directed against a State or intended to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general public".

IHL prohibits in war most acts that would be called "terrorist" if committed in peacetime. In this context, IHL applies both to armed forces and to non-State armed groups. 

Sounds like his answer confirmed his agreement with the decision.

I don't think so Gregg, I know that it weighed on him and he never spoke about it again. 

OH

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.1.22  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @5.1.14    3 weeks ago
The US bombed Japan in WWII, two atom bombs and thousands of incendiary bombs on Tokyo we were aiming at civilians and we succeeded, are we terrorists??

Were the Japanese?

The   Nanjing Massacre   or the  Rape of Nanjing was the mass murder of Chinese civilians in  Nanjing , the capital of the  Republic of China , immediately after the  Battle of Nanking  in the  Second Sino-Japanese War , by the  Imperial Japanese Army .

 Beginning on December 13, 1937, the massacre lasted six weeks. The perpetrators also committed other war crimes such as  mass rape looting , and  arson .

The massacre is considered to be one of the worst wartime atrocities.

Chinese soldiers were summarily executed in violation of the laws of war, and looting and rape was widespread. Due to multiple factors, death toll estimates vary from 40,000 to over 300,000, with rape cases ranging from 20,000 to over 80,000 cases.

However, most credible scholars in Japan, which include a large number of authoritative academics, support the validity of the  International Military Tribunal for the Far East  and its findings, which estimate at least 200,000 murders and at least 20,000 cases of rape. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.1.23  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @5.1.22    3 weeks ago
The   Nanjing Massacre   or the  Rape of Nanjing was the mass murder of Chinese civilians in  Nanjing , the capital of the  Republic of China

That was Japanese military action in China.

But also horrific was what they did in "Unit 731":

Unit 731 was a covert  biological  and  chemical warfare   research and development  unit of the  Imperial Japanese Army  that engaged in  lethal human experimentation  and  biological weapons  manufacturing during the  Second Sino-Japanese War  (1937–1945) and  World War II .

It killed an estimated 200,000 to 300,000 people.

Unit 731 was responsible for some of the most notorious  war crimes committed by the Japanese armed forces . It routinely conducted tests on people who were dehumanized and internally referred to as "logs".

Experiments included disease injections, controlled dehydration, biological weapons testing,  hypobaric   pressure chamber  testing,  vivisection organ harvesting amputation , and standard weapons testing.

Victims included not only kidnapped men, women (including pregnant women) and children but also babies born from the systemic  rape  perpetrated by the staff inside the compound

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.1.24  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @5.1.22    3 weeks ago
Were the Japanese?

Of course they were, Krish. 

The point of these comments was the fine line between terrorists and freedom fighters and how each is viewed and in what context.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5    3 weeks ago
Sinn Féin sees some of itself in Hamas.

Modern SF has always been obnoxiously and performatively left wing, and they've gone whole hog into the oppressor/oppressed ideology that's almost supplanted Marxism on the left the last few years. They would fit in very well with the Vanderbilt kids who had that farce of a protest/takeover last week. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.1  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.2    3 weeks ago

Yet, the Irish government supports the same scenario as do the majority of the people. Strange isn't it?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kavika @5.2.1    3 weeks ago

Strange isn't it?

Not really.  Left wing people believe in left wing causes, like Hamas. The Irish people tend to be very left wing as SF now being the leading party in the Republic demonstrates.  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.3  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.2.2    3 weeks ago
Left wing people believe in left wing causes, like Hamas.

Funny I'm aware of many left wingers that think that Hamas should be destroyed, including Jews who in general are left wing. Additionaly, the Irish are very supportive of Ukraine, is that a left wing thing as well? 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.2.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @5.2.3    3 weeks ago
Funny I'm aware of many left wingers that think that Hamas should be destroyed,

They seem pretty silent about that.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.2.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kavika @5.2.3    3 weeks ago
ny I'm aware of many left wingers that think that Hamas should be destroyed, i

I'm  not. Maybe someone should alert Biden so he stops pandering to hamas in order to placate his party.  

Additionaly, the Irish are very supportive of Ukraine, 

They are very supportive of remaining neutral and remain so after the Russian invasion. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.6  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.4    3 weeks ago
They seem pretty silent about that.

Maybe your not listening.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.7  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.2.5    3 weeks ago
I'm  not. Maybe someone should alert Biden so he stops pandering to hamas in order to placate his party.  

Maybe you should stick with this article and what I'm saying.

They are very supportive of remaining neutral and remain so after the Russian invasion. 

“Ireland has provided over €210 million in support to Ukraine since the outset of the war. Our support for Ukraine is unwavering. Ireland will continue to stand with the people of Ukraine for as long as necessary.” The Tánaiste made the announcement while attending the UN General Assembly in New York.Sep 19, 2023

As of Feb 2024 over 100,000 Ukrainian refugees in Ireland with more coming. 

And Biden's pandering to Hamas includes as of yesterday $2.5 billion in ammo and jet fighters. Now that is some pandering to Hamas.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.2.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @5.2.6    3 weeks ago

Do you have some quotes that I missed?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.9  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.8    3 weeks ago

Right in the comments on this article.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.2.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @5.2.9    3 weeks ago

I must have missed them.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.2.11  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kavika @5.2.7    3 weeks ago
e you should stick with this article

Right. The article is about Irish support of Ukraine. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.12  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Sean Treacy @5.2.11    3 weeks ago
Right. The article is about Irish support of Ukraine. 

Yes, it was an example of the Irish and their mixed support, Hamas on the one hand and Ukraine on the other, I'm sure that you must have realized that. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.13  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @5.2.3    3 weeks ago
unny I'm aware of many left wingers that think that Hamas should be destroyed,

And of course you believe them when they try to convince us they are sensible moderates. 

(How could you not?)

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.14  seeder  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @5.2.13    3 weeks ago
And of course you believe them when they try to convince us they are sensible moderates. 

And there is a reason that I shouldn't believe them, I've known them for years and in many instances decades. We have discussion on the subject of anti-Semitism but being minorities perhaps it is difficult for you and others to believe us, Krish. What say you?

The subject of anti-Semitism is a hot topic among Indians since we have a long history with Jews and a good one at that, are you aware of that, Krish? But the Gaza situation is causing distress among the Indian people, especially the younger generation. If they want the killing to stop it does not mean they are anti-Semitic. They come from a different time and place than us older Indians so their views are different. 

Some tribes have trade agreements with Israel and a few tribes celebrate Jewish holiday, kinda of amazing isn't it?

The Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana maintains close ties with the State of Israel and celebrates Israel's Independence Day. The Coushatta Tribe has stated a sense of solidarity with Jews due to similar histories of prejudice, discrimination, ethnic cleansing, and persecution.

Since Native Americans tend to lean left, including myself does not mean that we need to try and convince anyone that we are moderates. Perhaps the kibbutz in Israel are copied after NA tribes, it's the same premise you know and here is something unique the Mormons believe us to be descendants of the Laminates, it's a crazy world don't you think, Krish?

So, Krish I'm open to any discussion that you'd like to have regarding the current situation in Israel/Gaza/West Bank, anti-Semitism in America or anti Indian in American. 

Baamaapii niijii (until later my friend)

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6  Drinker of the Wry    3 weeks ago
I'm sure they see Hamas as freedom fighters

Exactly, rape for freedom.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.1  GregTx  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6    3 weeks ago

Rape, murder, dismembered, tortured civilians, infants to elderly. "freedom fighters", my ass..

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  GregTx @6.1    3 weeks ago

A YouGov poll found 43 per cent of Brits thought the British Empire was a good thing, while 44 per cent were proud of Britain's history of colonialism

A new YouGov poll   has found the British public are generally proud of the British Empire and its colonial past.

YouGov found 44 per cent were proud of Britain's history of colonialism, with 21 per cent regretting it happened and 23 per cent holding neither view.

The same poll also found 43 per cent believed the British Empire was a good thing, 19 per cent said it was bad and 25 per cent said it was "neither".

At its height in 1922, the British empire governed a fifth of the world's population and a quarter of the world's total land area.

Although the proponents of Empire say it brought various economic developments to parts of the world it controlled, critics point to massacres, famines and the use of concentration camps by the British Empire.

1. Boer concentration camps

Armed Afrikaners on the veldt near Ladysmith during the second Boer War, circa 1900
(Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

During the Second Boer War (1899-1902), the British rounded up around a sixth of the Boer population - mainly women and children - and detained them in camps, which were  overcrowded and prone to outbreaks of disease, with scant food rations .

Of the 107,000 people interned in the camps, 27,927 Boers died, along with an unknown number of black Africans.

2. Amritsar massacre

A young visitor looks at a painting depicting the Amritsar Massare at Jallianwala Bagh in Amritsar

When peaceful protesters defied a government order and demonstrated against British colonial rule in Amritsar, India, on 13 April 1919, they were blocked inside the walled Jallianwala Gardens and fired upon by Gurkha soldiers.

The soldiers, under the orders of Brigadier Reginald Dyer, kept firing until they ran out of ammunition, killing  between 379 and 1,000 protesters  and injuring another 1,100 within 10 minutes.

Brigadier Dyer was later  lauded a hero  by the British public, who raised £26,000 for him as a thank you.

3. Partitioning of India

British lawyer and law lord Cyril Radcliffe, 1st Viscount Radcliffe (1899 - 1977) at the Colonial Office, London, July 1956

In 1947, Cyril Radcliffe was tasked with drawing the border between India and the newly created state of Pakistan over the course of a single lunch.

After Cyril Radcliffe split the subcontinent along religious lines, uprooting over 10 million people, Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India were forced to escape their homes as   the situation quickly descended into violence .

Some estimates suggest up to one million people lost their lives in sectarian killings.

4. Mau Mau Uprising

Mau Mau suspects at one of the prison camps in 1953

Thousands of elderly Kenyans, who claim British colonial forces   mistreated, raped and tortured them   during the Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960), have launched a £200m damages claim against the UK Government.

Members of the Kikuyu tribe were detained in camps, since described as "Britain's gulags" or concentration camps, where they allege they were systematically tortured and suffered serious sexual assault.

Estimates of the deaths vary widely: historian David Anderson estimates there were 20,000, whereas Caroline Elkins believes up to 100,000 could have died.

5. Famines in India

Starving children in India, 1945

Between 12 and 29 million Indians died of starvation while it was under the control of the British Empire, as millions of tons of wheat were exported to Britain as famine raged in India.

In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Winston Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal.

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943,  Churchill said : “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  GregTx @6.1    3 weeks ago

you are going to rant and rave about the IRA ?

give me a fricking break

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.1.3  GregTx  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.2    3 weeks ago

I'm neither ranting or raving about the IRA, so please do take a freaking break JR..

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

Why can’t you stay font consistent?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
6.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.4    3 weeks ago
Why can’t you stay font consistent?

Well maybe its his pronouns? 

Maybe he identifies as "Font Inconsistant" .?

 
 

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