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For the country’s sake, Vice President Harris should step aside

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  s  •  one month ago  •  106 comments

For the country’s sake, Vice President Harris should step aside

The Democratic Party’s indulgence of identity politics has proved successful in building a diverse organization, but its strategy of courting (and pandering to) minority voters is the road to ruin.

In 2020, Joe Biden’s promiseto tap a womanas his vice president — along withRep. James E. Clyburn’selection-altering endorsement in South Carolina — paved Biden’s way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

His “history-making” selection of the telegenic Kamala D. Harris might prove to be his downfall in 2024 — and he has had enough fall-downs to make voters worry. Harris’s résumé was impressive. A former California  attorney general and sitting U.S. senator, she seemed to have been created by Central Casting. Or was it artificial intelligence? As the first Black woman and the first woman of Asian descent to be nominated for vice president, she was a doubleheader.

But her evolving beliefs undercut that appeal. As a presidential candidate in 2020, she followed the Democratic playbook on issues, except when she raised her hand in support of eliminating private health insurance. She also managed to imply that Biden was racist and segregationist, citing his long-ago stance against student busing. In her famous debate rebuke of Biden, she said she had been one of the little Black girls on one of those buses.

Her touché was short-lived. Harris ended her campaign in December 2019, citing a lack of financial resources. Next thing we knew, she was moving into the Naval Observatory. She was a colossal failure as border czar, a position she held briefly, and otherwise seemed to have gone undercover.

Whatever the reasons, it has seemed that Harris’s role was to be quiet, lest she embarrass her boss with her sometimes inane, rambling remarks and a laugh that erupts from nowhere about nothing obvious to others. I do, however, relish the thought of her face-to-face with Vladimir Putin and suddenly cackling at a linchpin moment during nuclear arms discussions.

The Kamala conundrum comes down to this: She was picked because she was Black and female, a combo tantamount to job security. Now that she has become a burden to the Democratic ticket, Biden can’t fire her. He can’t risk alienating his base. Full stop. The seriousness of this situation can’t be overstated. Biden’s diminishing faculties, notwithstanding his relatively successful State of the Union address, and his increasing physical frailty are concerning.

Every honest person knows he’s not in top form. A recent New York 

Times poll found that73 percent of registered votersbelieve Biden is too old to be the nation’s top executive. This includes 61 percent of those who voted for him in 2020.

At the start of Biden’s term, I was pulling for Harris to do well. She had pizzazz and a reputation for being a tough prosecutor. She had moxie and swagger, and she leaned centrist. There was reason for hope: Criticism from California progressives that she wasn’tadequately attunedto racial-justice issues and sided too often with prosecutors likely proved helpful when she was vetted for the VP spot.

Her performance as second in command has been disappointing, to say the least. Americans have taken note. Though Democrats unsurprisingly

like her more than Republicans do,a recent analysis by FiveThirtyEightset her average overall approval rating at just 37.2 percent, among the lowest recorded for a vice president.

There’s no reason to think her ranking would spike were she suddenly promoted to the Oval Office. Instead, most signs point to disaster. This is why I propose with all due respect that Harris step away from the ticket.

This is not a partisan suggestion. I said the same about Sarah Palin in 2008 when it became clear,as I wrote,that she was “out of her league.” No one would have blamed Palin for wanting to spend more time with her family, including a new baby, I said. I ended the column with these words, “Do it for your country.”

Harris could provide her own reasons for moving on. Perhaps she and 

Biden could a cut a deal for her to become the next attorney general — if he’s reelected. Biden then could tap someone else with executive experience who could reassure voters that the next vice president would be ready to take the reins should events require it. Democrats and Republicans alike would be relieved.

Please, Madame Vice President, do it for your country.


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Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1  author  Sean Treacy    one month ago

the trial balloons are being floated to save Biden with a VP who would actually help him.

Given the paramount importance and  restrictive nature of Democrat's identity politics, I doubt this will work. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @1    one month ago

By posting a seed that indicates concern that in the event Biden becomes disabled or dies during a second term then there is a big problem if Harris steps up.  Does that not mean you personally believe that Trump cannot possibly win the election?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @1    one month ago
Given the paramount importance and  restrictive nature of Democrat's identity politics, I doubt this will work. 

I doubt it too. Harris is very close to the presidency. Why would she turn away? She would have to see what you see and if she could see it that way, she would obviously exhibit a much different persona. She wouldn't be a more capable person, just a more acceptable one. The democrats are not worried about the perception of their candidates. They are totally focused on the voting process. To them it is all about ballot harvesting and mailing out a Gazillion ballots.

This was a nice exercise in "what is good for the country." The reality is that those who control Biden also control Harris. It won't make any difference which one of them is president. The country will be subjected to the same radical policies that opened our borders, ruined the dollar and made the nation unsafe. There is nothing there that benefits America.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    one month ago
Why would she turn away?

She will not.

It won't make any difference which one of them is president.

You so strongly believe that the D party is bad for the nation (no matter who is elected) that you will vote GOP.   Yet you are ignoring that the current GOP is NOT the GOP you have had your entire life.   It is the GOP who nominates a scoundrel and it will grow worse if that scoundrel is elected and surrounds himself with sycophants.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.2  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.1    one month ago

Just imagine the motley crew of slimy opportunists who would sign into another Trump administration...

)))))SHUDDER(((((

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  JBB @1.2.2    one month ago

I agree.   The current GOP contains an inordinate number of the absolute worst politicians that I have seen in my life.   It is amazing (and sickening) to see the GOP fall apart so quickly.   And the agent of this unraveling would, if elected PotUS, be empowered to make it much worse (and would do so).

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
1.2.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.3    one month ago
  It is amazing (and sickening) to see the GOP fall apart so quickly. 

It will get worse before it can get better.  Many of the dwindling Repubs in the House that actually want to govern have announced that they aren’t running this year.  Those include committee chairs that took a long time to win.

I can’t remember a more dysfunctional House in my lifetime.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.1    one month ago
You so strongly believe that the D party is bad for the nation

Who runs the party?  Moderates?   Look what they have done. Every bad thing in this country came from them.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.6  bugsy  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    one month ago

If I were Biden I would have an official food taster anytime he has lunch with Harris

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @1    one month ago

Call for Donald Trump to step down from the republican nomination and then we can talk. Until then your words are meaningless.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.4  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sean Treacy @1    one month ago

Imo we face a triple national dilemma in that not only do the Democrats need to dump Biden and Harris as ultimately bad for the country, the Republicans need to dump Trump as none deserve a second term in office. But sadly that will not happen as Trump has unfortunately already cinched the GOP nomination and Biden the Democratic one.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2  TᵢG    one month ago

I think if Harris were to step aside (I do not see this happening) that this could be a very good move for the Ds.   It all depends on the VP pick, but I would first turn to the D governors between 45 and 65 years of age.   

Because of the politics of race, the Ds would probably need to have a VP who is not Caucasian (ridiculous but reality) and might even need to be female (again ridiculous, but reality).   That limits the field and pretty much knocks out having a D governor as the VP.

My priority would be a competent individual of the right age who could step up to the plate as PotUS.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  TᵢG @2    one month ago
I think if Harris were to step aside (I do not see this happening) that this could be a very good move for the Ds. 

FDR made it work for him.

Because of the politics of race, the Ds would probably need to have a VP who is not Caucasian (ridiculous but reality) and might even need to be female (again ridiculous, but reality)

A Black, female Muslim would be perfect.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
2.1.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1    one month ago

A Black, female Muslim would be perfect.

You forgot antisemite.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.1    one month ago

I thought that was implied by Black, Muslim.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1    one month ago
A Black, female Muslim would be perfect.

To me, perfect is a competent, respected, notable individual who could assume the presidency.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.1.4  arkpdx  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1    one month ago

Don't forget disabled and a lesbian 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2    one month ago
I think if Harris were to step aside (I do not see this happening) that this could be a very good move for the Ds

Could be disastrous if it costs Biden very many black votes.

My priority would be a competent individual of the right age who could step up to the plate as PotUS.

That's what I prefer in my Presidential candidates, too.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
2.2.1  George  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2    one month ago

If only there was a third or fourth option to vote for. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  George @2.2.1    one month ago
If only there was a third or fourth option to vote for. 

I never knew we were strictly limited to who the DNC and RNC tells us we must vote for!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.2    one month ago

That is not the case.   We are limited by who the parties nominate.   The DNC and the RNC do NOT pick the nominees (except in extraordinary circumstances such as the presumptive nominee dropping out or dying).   

The nominees are picked by those voting in the primaries and the caucuses.  

Given our situation in 2024, the only individuals who have a shot at becoming PotUS are Trump and Biden.

That is it; that is reality (barring some disruptive change).

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.3    one month ago
That is not the case.   We are limited by who the parties nominate

Are we really though? There is no other way to vote for anyone else beside a D or an R, and then only if they are the nominee? Sure you want to go with that?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.4    one month ago
There is no other way to vote for anyone else beside a D or an R,

You can vote for anyone you wish, Texan.   

But if you are going to vote for President in 2024 and you do not cast a vote for Trump or Biden, then the individual you have voted for does NOT have a chance to win the presidency.

Might as well vote for Ronald Reagan or Ike.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.6  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.5    one month ago
You can vote for anyone you wish, Texan.

Exactly, we are NOT limited to the D and R nominees! 

But if you are going to vote for President in 2024 and you do not cast a vote for Trump or Biden, then the individual you have voted for does NOT have a chance to win the presidency.

Strawman argument, not interested--unless and until you can quote me claiming otherwise.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.7  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.6    one month ago

You do not understand what a strawman is.

I made a sound argument.  

Premise 1:  You have stated that you will not vote for Biden or Trump.    

Premise 2:  There is no other candidate who has a chance (as of today) of winning the Presidency in 2024.  

   IF you are going to vote for PotUS you will be voting for an individual who does NOT have a chance to win the presidency.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.8  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.7    one month ago

Once again, it is extremely foolish to pretend I don't know what a strawman is 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.2.9  arkpdx  replied to  George @2.2.1    one month ago

I am going to vote for this guy. 

https://youtu.be/aZvyid-ifQ8?si=EjcdWA6umyIUvMan

This could be his VP 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.2.10  Ronin2  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.3    one month ago

Please, the Democrats picked Hillary and Biden and squashed anyone running against them.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.11  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.10    one month ago

You do not recall the D primaries where the D electorate voted?

Do you believe Trump is the presumptive nominee for the GOP because the GOP establishment wanted him?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2    one month ago

There is no objective reason to believe that Harris is not qualified or competent, what there is, is right wing and conservative propaganda that evidently a lot of people have swallowed.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3  Right Down the Center    one month ago

Kamala bowing out may be best for the dem party, not so sure it would be best for the country.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4  Texan1211    one month ago

Anyone voting for Biden should be prepared for the worst if he wins and Harris is his VP again.

You get what you vote for.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4    one month ago
You get what you vote for.

And if you abstain or vote third party, you get what others voted for because you voluntarily declined to have a say in the matter.   

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1    one month ago
And if you abstain or vote third party, you get what others voted for because you voluntarily declined to have a say in the matter. 

False, no matter how often it is repeated. 

I vote.

My vote matters to me.

You vote.

Your vote matters to you.

What you are claiming, in essence, is that only winning votes really matter. I find that ridiculous.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.1    one month ago
False, no matter how often it is repeated. 

The only way it would be false is if there is a spoiler candidate that you vote for with the intention of spoiling.

There is no GOP spoiler candidate.   

RFK Jr. is the spoiler for Biden.   So if you are voting for RFK Jr. with the intent of spoiling for Biden, then your vote would be helping determine which of the two wins.   So there is the exception.

But you insist that you would use vote for someone you WANT as PotUS.   So clearly you would not vote for RFK Jr.

If you are not trying to spoil and are actually voting for an individual you WANT to be PotUS, then what I stated is undeniably true.   Your vote will do nothing to affect the outcome of the 2024 presidential election and that is your voluntary choice.

What you are claiming, in essence, is that only winning votes really matter. 

You are confused.   And I have explained this to you before so no point repeating.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.2    one month ago

not confused at all.

at least not on my part, clearly.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.2    one month ago
The only way it would be false is if there is a spoiler candidate that you vote for with the intention of spoiling.

It is false as I have informed you several times now.

I have repeatedly told you again and again I WILL be voting this fall.  I am not sitting anything out NOR am I letting others decide. For YOUR "statement" to be true, then anyone who votes for the losers are 'sitting it out and letting others decide' which is just freaking ridiculous.

I don't vote to keep people from office, I vote for who I think can do the job well. I really fail to see what is so hard to understand about that.

There is no GOP spoiler candidate.    RFK Jr. is the spoiler for Biden.   So if you are voting for RFK Jr. with the intent of spoiling for Biden, then your vote would be helping determine which of the two wins.   So there is the exception.

Well, that is certainly one way to look at things, I guess.

But you insist that you would use vote for someone you WANT as PotUS.   So clearly you would not vote for RFK Jr.

I have informed you repeatedly who I will vote for. Why not tell me who that is instead of listing people I won't vote for?

If you are not trying to spoil and are actually voting for an individual you WANT to be PotUS, then what I stated is undeniably true.   Your vote will do nothing to affect the outcome of the 2024 presidential election and that is your voluntary choice.

Of course that isn't anywhere even in the vicinity of the truth. Using that convoluted "logic", then if anyone votes for the losing candidates, their votes didn't affect the outcome of any election in history. Sorry, I ain't buying that nonsense. It's a ridiculous notion.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.4    one month ago
I WILL be voting this fall.

You write stuff like this implying that I have claimed otherwise.   This is your little dishonest game.   

For YOUR "statement" to be true, then anyone who votes for the losers are 'sitting it out and letting others decide' which is just freaking ridiculous.

That is a non sequitur.   It is not even close to the logic I presented.   Again with your little game.   Further, your 'logic' is flawed.   Those who vote for Biden or Trump and wind up on the losing side still used their vote in the strongest possible way to defeat the other candidate.   Their logic would be sound.   And by casting a vote for Biden or Trump they are ipso facto NOT letting others decide.   They are part of the process of selecting the next PotUS from the available choices:  Biden or Trump.

I have informed you repeatedly who I will vote for. 

Yes, you have claimed you will vote for Haley.   A good choice.   Trouble is, she has no chance at this point.   So what you will do is vote for a spoiler (potentially) for Trump.   I think that is great!   I encourage you to vote for Haley!   It has some value ... much more than abstaining or voting for some unknown third party candidate who cannot even be a spoiler.

Using that convoluted "logic", then if anyone votes for the losing candidates, their votes didn't affect the outcome of any election in history.

Again, you just make claims.   And if you think my logic is convoluted then you are not very good at logic.   I have explained where you are wrong but you just keep repeating your nonsense.   Nowhere do you clearly and specifically show where my logic is wrong in any way (because it is not possible to do so).

My argument is sound:

Premise 1:  You have stated that you will not vote for Biden or Trump.    

Premise 2:  There is no other candidate who has a chance (as of today) of winning the Presidency in 2024.  

   IF you are going to vote for PotUS you will be voting for an individual who does NOT have a chance to win the presidency.

You cannot rebut this.   All you have done is claim I have made a different argument.   It is a pathetic, dishonest tactic.

Now, let's make this more specific:

Premise 1:   You have stated that you will vote for Haley

Premise 2:   Haley is not the GOP or D nominee.

Premise 3:   Only the GOP or D nominee has a chance to win the presidency.

   You will be voting for an individual who does NOT have a chance to win the presidency.


If you want to vote for someone who has no chance to win the presidency, that is your prerogative.   Indeed, if Haley was the GOP nominee you and I would be voting for the same person.

But as it stands, that is simply not reality.   The reality is that if you vote for Haley, the best influence your vote can have in 2024 is to help spoil Trump.   That is not as powerful as voting against Trump by casting a vote for his only opponent, but at least it is negative on Trump and I consider that to be a good thing.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.5    one month ago
You write stuff like this implying that I have claimed otherwise.

Perhaps your putting emphasis on the word "claim" when speaking of what I have told you led me to that belief. Almost like calling me a liar without actually saying it.

This is your little dishonest game.  

And this is yours: calling me dishonest because you think I implied something I did not. That's not my problem in any case.

Again with your little game.  

Stop.

Further, your 'logic' is flawed.   Those who vote for Biden or Trump and wind up on the losing side still used their vote in the strongest possible way to defeat the other candidate.  

And THERE is where we differ the most on this whole issue. I don't vote to defeat a candidate, I vote for who I think will be best for the job. So my logic is perfectly sound. Your using your vote if your candidate loses accomplishes nothing more than my vote for a different candidate will. Thing is, I can recognize that. I won't pretend there is any effective difference in the end results.

Yes, you have claimed you will vote for Haley.   A good choice.   Trouble is, she has no chance at this point.   So what you will do is vote for a spoiler (potentially) for Trump.   I think that is great!   I encourage you to vote for Haley!   It has some value ... much more than abstaining or voting for some unknown third party candidate who cannot even be a spoiler.

I have acknowledged she doesn't have a chance numerous times to you now, so stop acting as if this is some earth-shattering news to me or that I have ever even once claimed she had a chance. Why on earth would anyone reading my comments ever think I care if my vote is considered a spoiler for anyone when it is abundantly CLEAR I don't want either one of the clowns? Why would I care? When I say I won't vote for either, I mean it.

Again, you just make claims. 

What effect on the results of an election do the losing voters have?

You cannot rebut this. 

Exactly, which is why I have never once tried. You keep repeating this but you never see me rebut it. Have you thought of why that may have been?

If you want to vote for someone who has no chance to win the presidency, that is your prerogative.

Thank you.

The reality is that if you vote for Haley, the best influence your vote can have in 2024 is to help spoil Trump.   That is not as powerful as voting against Trump by casting a vote for his only opponent, but at least it is negative on Trump and I consider that to be a good thing.

Your opinion of what my vote means is duly noted.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.6    one month ago
I don't vote to defeat a candidate, I vote for who I think will be best for the job.

You have a problem with those of us who are voting to defeat the worse of two "bads".   Your problem, however, is not logical — it is emotional.    When faced with two "bad" —but unequal— choices it is perfectly rational to take the least harmful option.   But you label that "insane" and write endless comments pissing and moaning about it — even writing an article about it.

If you are accused of a crime of which you are innocent, you have two major choices.    You can pay $$$$ to a competent law firm for a solid defense or play it cheap (low-priced attorney, defend yourself, or possibly use a public defender) and risk a conviction (and jail).   Both options suck ($$$$ vs. possible conviction).   But they are NOT equally bad.

A rational mind would recognize the even though both are "bad", it is best to pick the lesser of the two "bads".

You, however, cannot stop complaining about those who apply that logical principle to the 2024 presidential election.


Now, per the topic, Trump is an order of magnitude worse than Biden so the lesser of two bads is obvious.   But it would make the choice much easier if Biden had a VP who would make a good PotUS.   There are much better individuals than Harris.   Picking one of them could potentially switch vote reasons from lesser of two bads to actually supporting someone.   

Too bad that will not happen.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.1.8  George  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.7    one month ago
A rational mind would recognize the even though both are "bad", it is best to pick the lesser of the two "bads".

This would only be true if there were only two choices, but since there are not only two choices your argument is on its face wrong. Your argument is therefore flawed on its merits. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.1.8    one month ago

State the name of the individual, other than Biden or Trump, who could realistically win the presidency in 2024.   And then explain how.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.10  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.7    one month ago

Why in God's name do you keep thinking you can change his mind?

Are you still going to be doing this in October?

We don't have time anymore for "both sides" crap.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.11  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.10    one month ago

What makes you think I am trying to change his mind?   

You claim "both sides" whenever the flaws on the D side are acknowledged.   You seem to ignore the fact that my argument is that Trump is an order of magnitude worse.   Apparently you want me to lie and claim that I think Biden is a good choice.   That is NOT my position and I am not going to lie about it.

If you want me to argue with you too, just keep it up.

I would suggest you address your criticism to the GOP voters instead.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.12  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.11    one month ago

Both sidesism will get Donald Trump elected.

And it is rampant today on mainstream media such as the  sunday morning shows, and on social media such as newstalkers. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.12    one month ago

That’s the profit hungry mainstream media for you.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.12    one month ago

Both sidesism is arguing that both sides are equally bad.

Rational, honest arguments will not hide from the fact that both Biden and Trump are poor candidates while making the argument that, even so, Trump is an order of magnitude worse for the nation.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.15  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.14    one month ago
Both sidesism is arguing that both sides are equally bad. Rational, honest arguments will not hide from the fact that both Biden and Trump are poor candidates while making the argument that, even so, Trump is an order of magnitude worse for the nation.

like i have told you before, many many people dont exhibit your dispassionate analyzing skills. 

and texan will NEVER agree with you or co-operate with you, so what is the point ? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.15    one month ago
... and texan will NEVER agree with you or co-operate with you,

As I have stated many times, I have no expectation that certain individuals will be affected by reason.  

... so what is the point ? 

Why do you opine, JR?   Why do you challenge those who you know will never agree with you?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.17  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.10    one month ago
We don't have time anymore for "both sides" crap.

"Biden's brain is aging. Trump's brain is dementing."

The above recognizes mental problems on "both sides".    But in the comparison it shows that the bad on one side is substantially worse.

It honestly (and credibly) recognizes the reality of a negative on both sides while making a comparison that illustrates the significant inequality.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.18  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.16    one month ago

The wrongheaded belief is that President Biden has a better chance of being reelected if he were to abandon Vice President Harris and go with a more centrist partner...

He would not. It would be a huge net loss among the exact demographic groups who gave him his edge in 2020, women and minorities. Voters like you are already going to vote for Biden anyway and MAGAs voters cannot be turned. There is zero political advantage for Biden to even consider it...

Also, it is unwise to "misunderestimate" VP Harris. She has left those who did in her dust and has a pretty darned good chance of winding up as POTUS herself... one day! 

I have called one election wrong, in 2016. I admit it. I was wrong. I am not wrong about this. The Biden Administration, basically his current team, is orders (plural) of magnitude better for America than the nightmare crew Trump would assemble. Joe Biden is a better President by orders (plural) of magnitude!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.19  TᵢG  replied to  JBB @4.1.18    one month ago
The Biden Administration, basically his current team, is orders of magnitude better for America than the nightmare Trump would assemble. Joe Biden is a better President by orders (plural) of magnitude!

I agree.

But it would be better if Harris were replaced by someone more suited to assume the presidency.   So I disagree with you on that point.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.7    one month ago
You have a problem with those of us who are voting to defeat the worse of two "bads".   Your problem, however, is not logical — it is emotional.   

Well, there is the problem right there. You assume I have a problem, I don't. Not my problem.

The emotional garbage is just trying to be insulting again. I am not interested.

 When faced with two "bad" —but unequal— choices it is perfectly rational to take the least harmful option.   But you label that "insane" and write endless comments pissing and moaning about it — even writing an article about it.

Then you demonstrate you missed the point of my article. It was to set the record straight after people keep misrepresenting and outright lying about what I have stated here.  If you consider that pissing and moaning, so be it, I don't care.

A rational mind would recognize the even though both are "bad", it is best to pick the lesser of the two "bads". You, however, cannot stop complaining about those who apply that logical principle to the 2024 presidential election.

Get real. You are not the only person on the face of the earth who employs logic and understands it. Everyone who disagrees with something you say isn't freaking illogical, and constant attempts to portray all who disagree with you as illogical is a cheap, nasty trick. I am not going to tolerate it any longer and will call it out every time you resort to it.

Now, per the topic, Trump is an order of magnitude worse than Biden so the lesser of two bads is obvious.

Well, that certainly is one man's opinion.

As I have explained many, many, many times now. I don't consider voting for the lesser of two evils as good for the country, and yes, I know you do. That's wonderful for you.

I will still use my vote as I see fit--voting for who I think is good for the country, not merely someone who isn't as bad as the other.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.21  JBB  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.19    one month ago

The milk toast candidates who appeal to you personally like Haley and Sununu are not viable nationally and all the Democrats you like better than Harris will be backing Biden / Harris on Nov 5th!

Joe may stutter but those who know him and see him and work with him know he is a good man who is doing good. He will go down in history like Truman as an unlikely successful President!

Joe will be seen as a man like this...

original

While Trump will be remembered for this!

original

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.22  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.20    one month ago
I don't consider voting for the lesser of two evils as good for the country, ...

Yeah, we all know your opinion.  

You have the option to sit on the sidelines.   Best that you not shoot spitballs at those who are using their votes to help minimize the bad to our nation.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.23  TᵢG  replied to  JBB @4.1.21    one month ago

Why are you not posting this to Trump supporters, JBB?    Why are you posting this to me?

I am planning to vote for Biden as the best possible way to use my vote against Trump.

Argue with Trump supporters.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.24  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.22    one month ago
Yeah, we all know your opinion

Well, at least that is SOME progress. Success at last!

You have the option to sit on the sidelines.   

As does every eligible voter in America. Glad to know I have the same rights as others.

But I have repeatedly told you I am not sitting it out, haven't I? What part of "I will be voting this fall" would lead any rational being to think I am sitting it out? Now, THAT is illogical!

 Best that you not shoot spitballs at those who are using their votes to help minimize the bad to our nation.

Best not to use all of yours up bitching about people willing to vote with integrity and for the good of the country instead of swallowing reason and following the party line like a sheep.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.25  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.24    one month ago

If you do not vote for Biden or Trump then you are sitting on the sidelines because your vote has no possibility of helping determine the next PotUS.

The only exception is if you vote for someone who has a chance to be a spoiler.   Other than that, your vote is guaranteed to have no impact on who is elected PotUS.

That is what I mean by sitting on the sidelines.   

In Texas, it is possible to spoil Trump.   If enough people vote as you claim you will vote (for Haley) then Haley could be a spoiler for Trump.   Trump could lose Texas.   Losing Texas could result in Trump failing to win the presidency.   jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

Other than helping spoil Trump, your vote will not help determine the next PotUS.

As I have noted before, I am all for you voting for Haley!   

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.26  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.25    one month ago
If you do not vote for Biden or Trump then you are sitting on the sidelines because your vote has no possibility of helping determine the next PotUS.

Repetition of something wrong doesn't magically make it right. 

As you know, I plan on voting. My vote will count just as much as your vote.

You keep bringing up this nonsense about spoilers. I have already informed you I am not voting to be a spoiler as I want neither of the idiots in office, while you have followed exactly what a party wants you to and have admitted that you will vote for someone you consider bad.

And that is logic?

Ha!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.27  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.26    one month ago
I have already informed you I am not voting to be a spoiler as I want neither of the idiots in office ...

In Texas, it is possible to spoil Trump.   If enough people vote as you claim you will vote (for Haley) then Haley could be a spoiler for Trump.   Trump could lose Texas.   Losing Texas could result in Trump failing to win the presidency.

I fully support your intention to vote for Haley!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.28  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.27    one month ago
In Texas, it is possible to spoil Trump.   If enough people vote as you claim you will vote (for Haley) then Haley could be a spoiler for Trump.   Trump could lose Texas.   Losing Texas could result in Trump failing to win the presidency.

What else can I say but what I have--that I don't care about either clown getting into office? I think both are bad for America and won't hold my nose and support either one.

Now, you can talk all you wish about "spoiling", but please understand I don't give a damn.

I thought I had made that abundantly clear when I told you this:

You keep bringing up this nonsense about spoilers. I have already informed you I am not voting to be a spoiler as I want neither of the idiots in office, while you have followed exactly what a party wants you to and have admitted that you will vote for someone you consider bad.

I am now at a complete loss as to what to say to get you to acknowledge that.

I'll give my support and vote to someone deserving.

While fully supporting your right to support and vote for Traitor Joe!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.29  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.16    one month ago

Why do you challenge those who you know will never agree with you?

 

I think this is the point JR is making to you.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.30  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.28    one month ago
Now, you can talk all you wish about "spoiling", but please understand I don't give a damn.

It does not matter if you care.   What matters is the truth exposed via solid logic:

In Texas, it is possible to spoil Trump.
If enough people vote as you claim you will vote (for Haley) then Haley could be a spoiler for Trump.
Trump could thus lose Texas.   Losing Texas would almost certainly result in Trump losing the election.

Whether or not this matters to you is irrelevant.

What matters is that Haley will not be elected PotUS in 2024 (alas) and that voting for her can, at best, serve as a spoiler to result in Biden being reelected.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.31  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.25    one month ago
vote has no possibility of helping determine the next PotUS.

Kinda does. If he votes third party, then he, in essence, will be cancelling your supportive vote for Biden,

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.32  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.31    one month ago
Kinda does. If he votes third party, then he, in essence, will be cancelling your supportive vote for Biden,

Explain, specifically, how Texan (who would normally have NOT voted D) voting third party cancels a vote for Biden.

( This should be entertaining. )

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.33  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.30    one month ago

Strawman again. I never claimed Haley can win this year. In fact, I have freely admitted MULTIPLE times she won't. I can't make you believe the words you read.

What I personally find hilarious is that you seem to think I care which asshole ultimately wins. 

I fully support your choice to support and vote for Biden. 

If he loses, however, your vote will amount to exactly what mine does.

One person, one vote.

Perhaps you have heard that before.

You just keep repeating the same thing that no one--absolutely no one--is arguing with you.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.34  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.33    one month ago
I never claimed Haley can win this year.

Do you see me ever write you made that claim?    You really need to do some research and learn the meaning of 'strawman'.   You keep using that word incorrectly.

... you seem to think I care which asshole ultimately wins. 

As I just noted:

TiG@4.1.30 ☞  Whether or not this matters to you is irrelevant. What matters is that Haley will not be elected PotUS in 2024 (alas) and that voting for her can, at best, serve as a spoiler to result in Biden being reelected.

To wit, please do vote for Haley and help us stop Trump from winning the presidency.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.35  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.34    one month ago
Do you see me ever write you made that claim?

Then why must you repeat it so often? if no one is even arguing the point, why talk about the obvious at all?

You can "claim" I don't know what a strawman is, but that is merely your opinion.

To wit, please do vote for Haley and help us stop Trump from winning the presidency.

Sure, my one single vote will install Biden in the WH. Should make you happy your candidate wins instead of grousing about it.

Won't your support and vote for Biden be enough?

342248-20.jpg

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.36  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.32    one month ago

Let me entertain you, considering your snark.

The only third party candidate that has any traction whatsoever is RFK Jr. He is popular with many democrats and quire a few republicans as he is considered for more moderate that Biden. He is also known to have polled around 20 percent in the early days of the democratic primaries.

If Texan feels like RFK Jr would be the best option for this country, and vote for him, then he is canceling your supportive vote for Biden, since you, et all, have been saying that a vote for RFK Jr would most certainly take votes away from Biden.

I hope this has entertained you, as you have asked, but more importantly, educated you.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.37  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.35    one month ago
Then why must you repeat it so often? 

I am responding to your comments.   You keep bringing this up.   I respond.   Blame yourself.

Sure, my one single vote will install Biden in the WH. 

Because of the games you play (like this) I have been quite careful to note that your vote will HELP, not that your single vote will be the determiner.

But no matter what, you pretend that I have argued that your vote alone will install Biden in the WH.

If you want an example of a strawman argument, just look at what you wrote.    A strawman argument starts off with a false claim about what someone else wrote.   Typically the false claim is something that is easy to dispute.   And then the argument disputes it.

Noting it as sarcasm does not change this.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.38  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.37    one month ago
I am responding to your comments. 

Bull.

Support Traitor Joe and vote for him.

Or whoever else you want to.

I will vote for who I want to.

See how it all works now?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.39  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.36    one month ago
If Texan feels like RFK Jr would be the best option for this country, and vote for him, then he is canceling your supportive vote for Biden, since you, et all, have been saying that a vote for RFK Jr would most certainly take votes away from Biden.

You changed the scenario.   Slimy.   Well, that answers the question on how you are going to respond.   Dishonestly!

Texan has repeatedly stated that he is voting for Haley.  There is no IF.   He has stated his intention to vote for someone he would like to see as PotUS.   Are you not aware of this??   It would be fascinating if Texan wanted to see RFK Jr. as PotUS.  

Accordingly, my scenario deals with Texan voting for Haley.     

I have already described the RFK Jr. scenario multiple times on this site and directly to Texan.   My point was that the only way that Texan can impact the election is to vote for someone who could be a spoiler.

Nikki Haley could be a spoiler for Trump (but right now that looks very unlikely).   But as I note, if enough people vote for her in Texas, Trump could lose the state.

RFK Jr. is indeed a spoiler for Biden.   So if Texan votes for RFK Jr. (this is what I have pointed out to Texan specifically on this site) then he could help spoil Biden.


Given Texan has stated in clear terms, repeatedly, that he intends to vote for Haley, how could he possibly cancel a vote for Biden by voting for Haley?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.40  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.39    one month ago

After one reads through all of the non useful "information" of your post, it is obvious you did not even understand your own question to me.

Let me refresh your memory...

"Explain, specifically, how Texan (who would normally have NOT voted D) voting third party cancels a vote for Biden."

1. Haley is not a third party candidate, so she does not serve as a part of your question.

2. My 4.1.36 specifically spells out the answer to your question.

In addition, you posted this..."So if Texan votes for RFK Jr. (this is what I have pointed out to Texan specifically on this site) then he could help spoil Biden."

Why even bother with your 4.1.39 when you specifically agreed with my scenario with this comment?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.41  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @4.1.40    one month ago

Excellent points, and accurate to boot!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.42  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.36    one month ago

RFK Jr. is considering two conspiracy wackos to be his vice president. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.43  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.42    one month ago
RFK Jr. is considering two conspiracy wackos to be his vice president. 

Which is irrelevant to this conversation.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.44  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.41    one month ago

Thanks.

It is beyond me when others claim one's responses are slimy when they themselves agree with said post.

The sliminess is when one tries to argue against a post they agree with as if the post was something entirely different.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.45  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.42    one month ago
RFK Jr. is considering two conspiracy wackos to be his vice president. 

And that means what to what I posted?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.46  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @4.1.45    one month ago
And that means what to what I posted?

Nothing at all.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.47  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.40    one month ago

The scenario was how Texan’s voting third party could counter a Biden vote.

Texan has claimed that he is voting for Haley.   That means he is NOT voting for RFK, Jr.    This is well established in this thread.   

You ignore that fact and dishonestly change the scenario to something different from what Texan stipulated.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.48  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.45    one month ago

You try and figure it out

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.49  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.48    one month ago
You try and figure it out

I did. It means absolutely nothing

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.50  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.47    one month ago
The scenario was how Texan’s voting third party could counter a Biden vote.

Very good

"Texan has claimed that he is voting for Haley.   This is well established in this thread.   "

Doesn't matter. I specifically asked you about third party candidates, not Haley. Haley, once again, is not a third party candidate.

"You ignore that fact and dishonestly change the scenario to something different from what Texan stipulated."

The dishonesty comes when you specifically post a sentence that supports my scenario, then when you find what you did, you go to your slime tactics and try to argue against what you already agreed with.....until you realized you agreed with it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.51  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.50    one month ago
I specifically asked you about third party candidates, not Haley.

Your question ignores the context where Texan has established the he is voting for Haley, not RFK, Jr.

If you are asking a fantasy question then you should have stated that we should pretend that Texan is NOT voting for Haley.  That we should ignore an established premise.  Otherwise, the established premise frames the discussion.

Bottom line, there is no way that Texan can counter a vote for Biden by voting for Haley.   

Your ridiculous fantasy of him voting for RFK Jr.  is irrelevant — you are intentionally ignoring what Texan has already made specific.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.52  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.51    one month ago
Your question ignores the context where Texan has established the he is voting for Haley, not RFK, Jr.

I wish you would just admit that you are arguing something never said and move on. That would be the right...and correct..thing to do.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.53  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @4.1.44    one month ago

I can empathize with your frustration.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.54  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.53    one month ago

I watch your frustration as it goes down in real time.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.55  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.47    one month ago
The scenario was how Texan’s voting third party could counter a Biden vote.

Haley is running as something other than a Republican? Really?
I missed that announcement, can you supply a link?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.56  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.55    one month ago

Haley is no longer running as a repub...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.57  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.55    one month ago
Haley is running as something other than a Republican? Really?

Haley is not running.   If she runs third party (unlikely) then you can vote third party.   If not, you will have to write her in (a virtual third party).

Regardless of how you vote for Haley, your vote for Haley will help split the ticket for Trump in Texas.   A good thing.  Your vote will help Trump lose Texas. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.58  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.57    one month ago

You keep repeating this inane thing.

Is there any possibility you will ever simply accept I don't give a shit if you consider my vote a spoiler? Any at all?

He was correct, you were wrong, you are the one who stated third party. Its all right here in black and white.

Your support and vote for Traitor Joe is recognized, known, and acknowledged.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.59  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.58    one month ago

You penned a reply question to me @4.1.55

I gave you a direct, thoughtful answer.

Now you complain about it.

Best to not ask questions (stupid or otherwise) if you cannot stand to read the answer.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.60  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @4.1.56    one month ago

Wowza!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.61  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.59    one month ago

I complained about the oft-repeated inanity. Don't get it twisted.

Best stick to the actual question instead of imagining things.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.62  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.61    one month ago
I complained about the oft-repeated inanity.

Well Texan, what you label "inanity" is the actual point that I made.   I can see why you would attempt to deflect from it, label it, ignore it, but that does not change the logical validity of my point.

And since you keep labeling it inanity, I will defend it yet again by illustrating the logic:


Texas is not a swing state in 2024, but it is not a shoe-in win for Trump either.  If enough voters who normally would vote GOP do not vote for Trump, he could lose the state of Texas.

You claim to be voting for Haley.   Good for you!   

By voting Haley rather than Trump you transform what should be a +1 GOP vote for the nominee into a 0 vote for the nominee.   That is a net loss of 1 vote for Trump.

If enough Texans vote as you claim you will vote, Trump will not get the GOP votes he needs to win Texas.   If Trump loses Texas, he loses the election.

So, as I have noted, I am all in favor of you not voting for Trump.   And voting Haley instead is reasonable because I think she is a good candidate (even though she has no chance to win in 2024).

Bottom line, I support your decision to NOT vote for Trump.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.63  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.62    one month ago

You made the same old tired point you have repeated so often I can recite by heart. A point no one disputes. A point I never argued. A point I have told you I don't give a shit about.

In other words, an inane "point".

Your support and vote for Biden has been recognized and acknowledged.

I support your right to vote for Traitor Joe.

What's another fucked up four years anyway?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.64  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.63    one month ago

As long as you do not vote for Trump, you move what would be a +1 vote for Trump into a 0 vote for Trump.

I encourage you to influence your fellow Texans to do likewise.   Working together, you could indeed cause Trump to lose Texas.

I am cheering you on, Texan.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.65  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.64    one month ago
As long as you do not vote for Trump, you move what would be a +1 vote for Trump into a 0 vote for Trump.

You have managed to imagine things again. 

Why would you assume I would have voted for Trump? Have I not made myself clear YET?

Your continuing support and vote for Traitor Joe removes a +1 vote for Trump to a +1 vote for Biden. 

Difference is, I won't and don't try to "justify" my vote for Haley while you are reduced to doing it for your support and vote for an incompetent leader.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.66  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.65    one month ago

That was not my assumption.   My assumption was that you would normally vote R.   Are you now going to claim that you do not normally (when Trump is not the nominee) vote for the GOP nominee?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.67  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.66    one month ago
That was not my assumption.

Well, your post tells me differently.

You ASSUMED I would have voted for Trump, all the while knowing while you posted that crap that I am not voting for him.

Spinning now won't change what you wrote.
What do you expect rational people to take away from this post?

As long as you do not vote for Trump, you move what would be a +1 vote for Trump into a 0 vote for Trump. I encourage you to influence your fellow Texans to do likewise.   Working together, you could indeed cause Trump to lose Texas.

It is irrational to say what you did and pretend you really meant something else.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.68  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.67    one month ago
You ASSUMED I would have voted for Trump

Is this how you are going to continue to operate?   Ignore what I write and just make dishonest claims?

I assumed you would vote GOP (explicitly excluding Trump).

"As long as you do not vote for Trump" is recognizing that voting for Haley is NOT voting for Trump.  It does not (at least in normal, rationally read, English) mean that you would have voted for Trump.   

Are you going to claim that you would not normally vote for the GOP nominee if it were not Trump?   Are you going to claim that you routinely vote third party or abstain (or vote D)?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.69  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.68    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.71  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.68    one month ago
Is this how you are going to continue to operate?   Ignore what I write and just make dishonest claims?

Do you find it dishonest to go by what you wrote?

[deleted]

As long as you do not vote for Trump, you move what would be a +1 vote for Trump into a 0 vote for Trump. 

Since you know I won't be voting for [Trump,deleted] How is it changing a Trump vote at all? Simple answer--it isn't.

It does not (at least in normal, rationally read, English) mean that you would have voted for Trump.   

Then your previous comment makes zero sense at all.

Are you going to claim that you would not normally vote for the GOP nominee if it were not Trump?   Are you going to claim that you routinely vote third party or abstain (or vote D)?

Have you seen me make any such claims?

Are you going to claim you weren't going to vote for Biden all along?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5  JBB    one month ago

Says who? MAGAs? Half-A-MAGAs? GTFOOH...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6  Drinker of the Wry    one month ago

Voting strategies are interesting.  Some people vote for who the believe will make the best president.  Others vote Party regardless.  More recently, some vote against someone by voting for their opponent.  Others file a protest vote when the don’t like either of the main Party candidates.  

I did that for the first time in 2016 when I voted for Gary Johnson.  I didn’t like either of the main candidates, I was certain that Hillary would take VA regardless so I was one of the 3% that voted for Johnson.  Had I expected the VA race to be very close, it would have been a harder decision.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6    one month ago

I fully support choice in voting.

Vote your conscience.

If you think someone who is clearly bad for America is your choice, vote and support that choice!

 
 

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