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Alabama AG calls first nitrogen gas execution 'textbook,' but witnesses say inmate thrashed in final moments

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  one month ago  •  90 comments

By:   Abigail Brooks and Erik Ortiz

Alabama AG calls first nitrogen gas execution 'textbook,' but witnesses say inmate thrashed in final moments
ATMORE, Ala. — Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall on Friday vowed to continue using nitrogen gas in executions and offered to assist other states interested in the novel method, while fending off concerns that an inmate executed the night before did not become unconscious as quickly as expected and thrashed on the gurney, according to witnesses.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


ATMORE, Ala. — Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall on Friday vowed to continue using nitrogen gas in executions and offered to assist other states interested in the novel method, while fending off concerns that an inmate executed the night before did not become unconscious as quickly as expected and thrashed on the gurney, according to witnesses.

"What occurred last night was textbook," Marshall told reporters after the execution of Kenneth Eugene Smith on Thursday evening by nitrogen hypoxia, in which he was forced to breathe only nitrogen through a mask and was denied oxygen.

The execution,the first in the U.S. using nitrogen gas, lasted roughly 30 minutes from the time it started to Smith's time of death. Marshall said Friday that nitrogen hypoxia "is no longer an untested method — it is a proven one."

But the physical reaction of Smith, who was 58 and on death row for over three decades for a 1988 murder-for-hire slaying, was already being highly scrutinized after a 2022 attempt to execute him by lethal injection failed when prison staff could not locate a suitable vein.

Media witnesses to Thursday's execution said Smith was conscious for several minutes into the execution and then appeared to shake and writhe on the gurney for two minutes. They said that was followed by several minutes of deep breaths until his breathing slowed and it was no longer perceptible.

The state had said in court filings that "the experts agree that nitrogen hypoxia is painless because it causes unconsciousness in seconds," and death within minutes.

Marshall could not say exactly when the nitrogen began to flow into the mask, making it difficult to discern the timing.

But one media witness said it appeared to take longer than the state had suggested for Smith to become unconscious and die.

"It's interesting to see the attorney general say that everything went consistent with plans that they laid out," Lee Hedgepeth, an Alabama reporter, said on MSNBC.

"We saw him begin violently shaking, thrashing against the straps that held him down," Hedgepeth said of Smith. "This was the fifth execution that I've witnessed in Alabama, and I've never seen such a violent execution or a violent reaction to the means of execution."

He added that Smith had dry-heaved into the mask.

In court documents arguing for various courts to block the execution, Smith's lawyers said he feared he would vomit into the mask and choke — only adding to his claims of cruel and unusual punishment. The U.S. Supreme Court rejected Smith's request to block his execution late Thursday in a 6-3 decision, with the court's three liberal justices dissenting. Justice Sonia Sotomayor agreed that Smith's fears of "superadded" pain and prolonged death were warranted and he had been selected as a "guinea pig."

The execution drew criticism from civil rights and religious groups both nationally and around the globe, with United Nations human rights experts saying it "will likely violate the prohibition on torture."

Smith's spiritual adviser, the Rev. Jeff Hood, who was permitted in the chamber to give him his last rites before the mask was strapped on and who has participated in multiple executions in the past year, said he did not expect to see Smith "heaving up and down on the gurney."

"I mean, it really was like watching someone put a plastic bag over someone's head and just to see what happens, and holding it as tight as they can, as long as they can, to watch the person resist and shake," Hood said.

"They repeatedly said that he would not be able to resist the nitrogen, would be unconscious within seconds," Hood said, adding that that did not happen. "He'll be unconscious in a matter of seconds. And then he looks like a fish out of water."

Joel Zivot, a physician and an associate professor of anesthesiology at Emory University in Atlanta,had voiced concerns about the risks of nitrogen hypoxia and the possibility of slow asphyxiation that could "result in a torturous death."

He said the idea that administering the method once does not mean it has been proven because it remains untested in a credible scientific and impartial setting.

"We have observations now, and we know it would take a longer time than they said it would. We know he was writhing around, which I know it doesn't indicate anything good," Zivot said. "If they think this was him enjoying his hypoxia, then saying what happened last night was 'textbook' are just words without meaning."

Alabama has 165 inmates on death row. Marshall said that 43 others have also chosen nitrogen hypoxia over lethal injection as their preferred method of execution.

"We'll definitely have more nitrogen hypoxia executions in Alabama," he added Friday.

With lethal injections becoming increasingly difficult to carry out because of a shortage in the necessary drugs — as manufacturers decline to make them available for the purpose of executions — observers say nitrogen gas may eventually be a go-to alternative for many states. It is abundant, found in the Earth's atmosphere and soil.

Two states, Mississippi and Oklahoma, have approved nitrogen hypoxia in executions in addition to other methods, although neither has a protocol in place like Alabama. Alabama made nitrogen hypoxia a legal method in 2018 but moved to install its protocol after a series of problematic executions using lethal injection that led to a temporary pause in the practice in 2022.

Oklahoma had a moratorium on executions for six years until 2021 following a series of bungled executions of its own related to lethal injection.

Officials in Oklahoma last year said they would be watching what happens in Alabama, but wouldn't immediately commit to making nitrogen hypoxia an option.

"I have a continuously watchful eye on the progress Alabama is making with this new method," Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Steven Harpe said in a statement Friday. "We are interested in the option of nitrogen hypoxia because it releases the state from the burden of the three-drug protocol. If nitrogen hypoxia is proven to be safe, effective and easy to administer, the availability of nitrogen reduces the strain of locating and obtaining the sedatives and paralytics for our current protocol."

Nebraska state Sen. Loren Lippincott said he hopes a bill he introduced this month to make nitrogen hypoxia another option for death row inmates besides lethal injection can advance. The state has been unable to carry out an execution since 2018 because it can't obtain the necessary lethal injection drugs, he said.

"Given the outcome of the Alabama case, we are confident that this will be a highly debated bill in our state," Lippincott said in an email. "If given this option, we are certain that the Nebraska Department of Corrections will use this method to humanely give justice to victims' families and our community."

In December, in a phone interview from prison with NBC News, Smith predicted the use of nitrogen hypoxia would only create more "victims" if the state of Alabama proceeded. He also had a message for his fellow death row inmates, some of whom said the mood in the prison Friday was "deflated and anxious, for sure."

"As goes Kenny," he said, "so goes the rest of my brothers."


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mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
1  mocowgirl    one month ago

He stabbed a woman to death for $1000 and left her children to grieve the loss all of the days of their lives.

Why is the focus on the murderer might have possibly "suffered" for a few minutes?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2  devangelical    one month ago

sorry, I don't get the amount of concern for the humane disposal of murderous scum. fuck that noise. grab some fentanyl out of the evidence locker, put enough of it to get a stadium off into a dart gun syringe, strap him to a gurney, shoot the dart, pronounce him dead, have the coroner drain him, put him into a cardboard box, drop it into a hole in the ground, cover it with dirt and call it a day ...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  devangelical @2    one month ago

Agreed.

256

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
2.2  shona1  replied to  devangelical @2    one month ago

Morning Devangy...the most well armed country on this earth and when it comes to a firing squad..everyone goes gun shy??.

You mob literally have the answer in your hands. It's efficient, cheap and very effective yet they still stuff around and get all squeamish using lethal injections to bump off a murderer..

Someone has lost the plot..

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  shona1 @2.2    one month ago

Guillotine and firing squads are too bloody for the public

Hanging worked except for the poor soul soiling themselves and the involuntary jerking afterwords

They convinced themselves a long time ago that a drug overdose was more "humane" the electrocution

and its spectacular failures.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.2  devangelical  replied to  shona1 @2.2    one month ago

it's typical here. think, there must be a harder way to do it, is our motto. somebody is looking for job security, and if they asked for volunteers the line would stretch for blocks.

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
2.2.3  shona1  replied to  Split Personality @2.2.1    one month ago

Morning..no public viewing allowed other than for victims family if they wish...hell people hardly even bat an eye with mass shootings these days..let alone one person...

Nope taken out to the sticks put in front of the firing squad and disposed off.. remains either sent back to the murderers family if not buried in an obscure place in an unmarked grave...

 
 
 
Waykwabu
Freshman Silent
2.2.4  Waykwabu  replied to  shona1 @2.2    one month ago

Our northern neighbours (Malaysia & Indonesia) have no qualms  about using traditional methods of execution, hanging and firing squad. Much simpler and very efficient. Our own citizens who committed drug offences, despite reading the numerous warnings and signs in the departure lounges at the airports, have paid the ultimate penalty!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.2.5  devangelical  replied to  shona1 @2.2.3    one month ago

still too expensive. good lord woman, the solution is right in front of you. 2 large zip ties for the wrists and ankles, a boat ride to the reef, open a couple veins and over the side...

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
2.2.6  MrFrost  replied to  shona1 @2.2.3    one month ago
hell people hardly even bat an eye with mass shootings these days

Exactly. 

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
2.2.7  shona1  replied to  devangelical @2.2.5    one month ago

Nah that's still to much effort and don't want to wreck the reef..

Just turf them in the nearest billabong and you are done..no mess, no fuss..and all good for the environment...🐊🐊

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
2.2.8  shona1  replied to  Waykwabu @2.2.4    one month ago

Yep they don't stuff around.. Barlow and Chambers if I remember correctly..and the Bali 9..

Saved us mega $$...

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
2.2.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  shona1 @2.2.7    one month ago

I had to look up "billabong".  I had only heard of the clothing company.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.2.10  Kavika   replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.2.9    one month ago

OMG, you've never listened to the Australian National Anthem, Waltzing Matilda?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
2.2.11  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kavika @2.2.10    one month ago

It sounds familiar, but I recognize the tune more than the words.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
2.2.12  arkpdx  replied to  Kavika @2.2.10    one month ago

I remember it. Never really knew what it meant. 

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
2.2.13  shona1  replied to  arkpdx @2.2.12    one month ago

Arvo..what you would call a pond I guess...a body of water enclosed by land.. sometimes they have a small steam running into it..

Billabongs are very common up north crocs love them... people get taken because they think they are a great place to swim...but..🐊🐊

320

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3  Tacos!    one month ago

I'll never understand why they can put a dog to sleep, but they can't put a murderer to sleep.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  Tacos! @3    one month ago

let the victim's families determine who does it and how, or at least apply extreme exaggeration to the penalty to make a better deterrent. make the execution of sentence so hideous as to give other potential murderers pause for a second thought about committing such a crime. use the healthy ones as involuntary organ donors. I also don't think the taxpayers should be stuck for the cost of the casket or excavating/covering their graves. sell their corpses to zoos or gator farms for all I care. film and copyright their executions and market them for pay per view, giving the families the profits. there's plenty of people in america with more money than sense as potential customers.

I'd also streamline the appeals process for the convicted that had indisputable evidence of guilt so that taxpayers weren't stuck with the tab of public defenders and warehousing this class of potential organ donors, which is the only legitimate reason left for keeping them alive.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.1  mocowgirl  replied to  devangelical @3.1    one month ago
use the healthy ones as involuntary organ donors.

Not until we fully understand if the cells carry memory and can affect the recipient's personality.  There are studies ongoing because of personality changes linked to donor's personality and preferences.

Heart Transplants, Personality Transplants? | Psychology Today

There are many descriptions in the popular press of heart transplant recipients taking on the personality traits of their donors. Perhaps the best-known account is that of Claire Sylvia, a former professional dancer. Claire received a heart from an 18-year-old boy who died in a motorcycle accident. After the surgery, she started craving beer and KFC fried chicken, stuff she had never liked before. “My daughter said I even walked like a man.” Wanting to understand the changes she was experiencing, she sought out the family of her donor—a teenaged boy who died in a motorcycle accident—and learned that these foods were his favorites.

About 10 years ago, I read a paper by Paul Pearsall and fellow researchers in which they discussed 10 cases of heart or heart-lung transplants. Pearsall had interviewed transplant recipients, their families, and the donor’s family, while Schwartz and Russek examined parallels between the donor and recipient. According to the authors, the recipients experienced profound changes in their lifestyles: “changes in food, music, art,   sexual , recreational, and   career   preferences, as well as specific instances of perceptions of names and sensory experiences related to the donors.”
 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1.2  devangelical  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.1    one month ago

you're starting to get too close to my ingenius idea of deathrowdick.com. an online service where a specific moneyed demographic of those that typically feel shortchanged in life, or having some self esteem issues, are able to purchase genital extensions or replacements in a variety of sizes and colors, to be implanted by a surgeon of their choice.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.3  mocowgirl  replied to  devangelical @3.1.2    one month ago
that typically feel shortchanged in life, or having some self esteem issues, are able to purchase genital extensions or replacements

My personal experience, with this type of man, tells me their problem is between their ears not between their legs.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.4  Tacos!  replied to  devangelical @3.1    one month ago
make the execution of sentence so hideous as to give other potential murderers pause for a second thought about committing such a crime

There’s no credible evidence that the death penalty is a more effective deterrent against murder than incarceration. Generally, when people commit murder, they’re all out of fucks to give. They aren’t thinking about the punishment. In fact, they probably feel quite justified in their actions.

Basically, it might make the victim’s loved ones or society feel better because revenge was exacted. That’s about it.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.5  mocowgirl  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.4    one month ago
There’s no credible evidence that the death penalty is a more effective deterrent against murder than incarceration.

There is NO deterrent against murder.

The murderer is animalistic.   Their thought process revolves around satisfying an internal need that would be impossible to understand unless a person is wired the same way.  

The murder victim is just that - the victim.  Analyzing how or why a victim deserved or asked to be murdered is asinine and yet, that seems to be the normal thought process of the people, who seem to somehow identify with the mindset of the murderer.  Really?  Most people are hardwired not to kill other people.   The murderer does not have this standard wiring and will never acquire it.  Amputees have a better chance of regrowing a severed leg.

Keeping people in cages like zoo animals is cruel and inhumane.  Prison should be about rehabilitation for the people who can be rehabilitated via supervision, counseling and vocational education.

For the people, whose mental damage is beyond rehabilitation then it should be either lifelong incarceration in a mental hospital or the death penalty.  

I have read that scientists are working on brain implants for the criminally insane.  Is it ethical or moral to experiment on murderers in the hope of keeping them out of cages or being executed by the various methods proposed in this discussion?  Doubtful. 

Criminal Minds Are Different From Yours, Brain Scans Reveal | Live Science

The latest neuroscience research is presenting intriguing evidence that the brains of certain kinds of criminals are different from those of the rest of the population.

While these findings could improve our understanding of criminal behavior, they also raise moral quandaries about whether and how society should use this knowledge to combat crime.

The criminal mind

In one recent study, scientists examined 21 people with   antisocial personality disorder   – a condition that characterizes many convicted criminals. Those with the disorder "typically have no regard for right and wrong. They may often violate the law and the rights of others," according to the Mayo Clinic.

Brain scans of the antisocial people, compared with a control group of individuals without any mental disorders, showed on average an 18-percent reduction in the volume of the brain's middle frontal gyrus, and a 9 percent reduction in the volume of the orbital frontal gyrus – two sections in the brain's frontal lobe.

Another brain study, published in the September 2009 Archives of General Psychiatry, compared 27   psychopaths   — people with severe antisocial personality disorder — to 32 non-psychopaths. In the psychopaths, the researchers observed deformations in another part of the brain called the amygdala, with the psychopaths showing a thinning of the outer layer of that region called the cortex and, on average, an 18-percent volume reduction in this part of brain.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.6  mocowgirl  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.5    one month ago

I'm going to bookmark the follow article that seemed to have some interesting information that I will try to wade through when I more awake.

I will share in case someone here is interested in a study of the criminal mind.

Inside the brain of a killer: the ethics of neuroimaging in a criminal conviction | BioTechniques (future-science.com)

Unlike previous attempts, recent research in this field took a less binary stance, noting that while differences in the brain may make an individual more predisposed to commit crime, these often need to be combined with a multitude of other factors – both genetic and environmental – before said criminality occurs. This resulted in the creation of the field of neurocriminology [ 2 ]. Neurocriminology combines multiple factors to give a well-rounded view of the those who commit crimes. Research includes genetics, parental influences, early life experiences, hormones, psychophysiology and brain imaging to understand why certain individuals are driven to break the law [ 2 ].

Based upon this new field of research, brain imaging was taken out of the lab and into the court room, presenting an ethical quandary for jurors and judges alike; should an individual be held responsible for a crime if their biology is to blame?
 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.7  Tacos!  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.5    one month ago

I think for the lifelong criminal/drug addict/insane person what you say may be true. But a number of people commit murder who otherwise have no record - often because they just lost their temper, but there can be other reasons.

Maybe they’re fed up with taking care of an elderly or sick family member. Maybe they have some other personal or financial situation that seems hopeless and they see no other way out. Maybe someone has broken their heart or wronged them in some other way, and they’re bent on revenge. Maybe they have done something less egregious than murder, but they decide they are willing to murder to cover it up (this person is actually trying to avoid jail).

But once the decision is made, do people pause because of the death penalty? It doesn’t seem like they do. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.9  mocowgirl  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.7    one month ago
Maybe

A lot of maybes portraying the murderer as the victim.

So what if the murderer is fed up with other people?  This is something we all have to deal with or cut the toxic people out of our lives without killing them.  The majority of people do this every day of their life.  They quit jobs, they divorce, they distance themselves over time from toxic friends and family.  

Who hasn't been "wronged" by another person?  Who hasn't had their heart broken?  The majority of people have the mental ability to understand that is not a reason to commit murder.  The people, who view other people as objects to be used, really do feel they are the victim.  This is usually the defense used - the murderer was the victim.  The defense lawyer tries to seat a jury that is selected based on their empathy for victims.  The people, who have been the enablers of the murderer, are called to defend the murderer's actions.  The "experts" are called in to portray the murderer as a victim of whatever they can be considered a victim of.

During the trial, the true victim is either forgotten or portrayed as the aggressor who deserved to be butchered, strangled, shot, drowned, etc.  Some juries actually buy into this bullshit and exonerate the murderer.

I will repeat what I wrote earlier.  The death penalty does not deter murderers one iota.  Murderers have little, if anything, in common with people who do not commit murder.  The problem is that some people identify more with the murderer than the victim.  They project their emotions about their life experiences onto the murderer and feel the murderer actually got justice for them by murdering someone who had "wronged" them or "broken their heart" or whatever grudges they harbor against others.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1.10  Tacos!  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.9    one month ago
A lot of maybes portraying the murderer as the victim.

Not at all! Where do you get that nonsense?? I’m just exploring the reasons why people commit murder. I didn’t say I personally thought they were good reasons.

This whole line of conversation is about the deterrent power of death over incarceration, and whether or not a murderer might take either into account. Portraying the murderer as a victim doesn’t enter into it.

During the trial, the true victim is either forgotten or portrayed as the aggressor who deserved to be butchered, strangled, shot, drowned, etc.  Some juries actually buy into this bullshit and exonerate the murderer.

I have observed or taken part (as counsel) in multiple murder trials. I have never seen the kind of victim-blaming you are describing unless there is a self-defense case to be made. Even arguing the heat of the moment, such as finding your lover in bed with someone else, just reduces the degree of homicide.

The death penalty does not deter murderers one iota.

I have said as much a few times, now. This has actually been studied. So have the “reasons” people commit murder.

 
 
 
Waykwabu
Freshman Silent
3.1.11  Waykwabu  replied to  Tacos! @3.1.4    one month ago
There’s no credible evidence that the death penalty is a more effective deterrent against murder than incarceration
It's deterred me from knocking off a  few of my more undesirable neighbours - guess that's a pretty good start   !!!

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
3.1.12  arkpdx  replied to  mocowgirl @3.1.9    one month ago
The death penalty does not deter murderers one iota.

There was a study done by the University of Chicago that concluded that every execution 8-18 murders are deterred. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.13  JBB  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.12    one month ago

We are going to need a link to that likely bogus study which must be from a bogus source then because every study I ever saw found that capital punishment has no real effect on the murder rate...

Explain why the murder rate is higher in death penalty states...

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.1.14  mocowgirl  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.12    4 weeks ago
There was a study done by the University of Chicago that concluded that every execution 8-18 murders are deterred. 

It would be interesting to see the research data.

For myself, I honestly believe that most people have evolved to the level that they don't want to murder other people and would not want to live with the guilt. 

It is entirely probable that I am projecting my morality on others which is why I am always interested in studies and profiles of criminals and how their brain-wiring/thought processes differ from people who can live in an ordered society.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.2  Ronin2  replied to  Tacos! @3    one month ago

They couldn't even locate the veins on him the first time around. I guess they could force him to wear a mask and pump the sleeping gas into that way- but if he resists you the same thing all over again that has some so upset for a murderer.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Ronin2 @3.2    one month ago

handcuff perp to the back bumper of a old truck that needs a valve job. start truck. close garage door. wait 20 minutes. ezpz.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @3.2.1    one month ago

That’s not a green solution.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.2.3  mocowgirl  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.2    one month ago
That’s not a green solution.

How about an old green truck?  

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.4  devangelical  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.2    one month ago

based upon such limited use, green solution applications will create more carbon produced than those needed to be offset.

analyze. adapt. attack.

more green?

crush 3 quaaludes mixed with a syringe full of everclear and spike the perp, put down some plastic and pour him into the backseat of any car. then run a hose from from the exhaust pipe in thru a back window and seal it with cardboard and duct tape. start the car, set the heater temp for high and on recirculate, shut the car door, check back in an hour.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.2.5  cjcold  replied to  devangelical @3.2.1    one month ago

As a paramedic, saw what a 12 gauge shotgun can do when fired in the mouth and under the chin. Not pretty, but very fast and very effective. Shotgun shells are also quite inexpensive.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.6  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @3.2.5    one month ago

way too messy. how about a one way ticket to the mid atlantic on deathrow airlines. steel sleeve inside a C-130, cinder block ankle bracelet for the perp, fly out 300 miles off the coast, drop the ramp and pull into a steep climb.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.2.7  mocowgirl  replied to  devangelical @3.2.6    one month ago
how about a one way ticket to the mid atlantic on deathrow airlines. steel sleeve inside a C-30, cinder block ankle bracelet for the perp, fly out 300 miles off the coast, drop the ramp and pull into a steep climb.

With your gifted imagination on the ways to execute people, you should be writing murder mysteries.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.8  devangelical  replied to  mocowgirl @3.2.7    one month ago

meh, I just have a big problem storing humans with no hope of redemption at $60K to $80K per year.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
3.2.9  mocowgirl  replied to  devangelical @3.2.8    one month ago
meh, I just have a big problem storing humans with no hope of redemption at $60K to $80K per year.

I totally agree.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.2.10  cjcold  replied to  devangelical @3.2.6    one month ago

Way too expensive.

Just turn the death row guy loose in the gen-pop yard and pay some lifer a carton of smokes to shank him.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.2.11  Tacos!  replied to  Ronin2 @3.2    one month ago
They couldn't even locate the veins on him the first time around.

Jesus, how hard is that? A nurse’s aid, with a few months of training finds veins all day long. What is so complicated?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.2.12  cjcold  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.11    one month ago

Just use a longer needle and go into the heart.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
3.3  arkpdx  replied to  Tacos! @3    one month ago

I'll never understand how some can have such compassion and sympathy for such a scummy and slimy killer [Deleted]

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.3.1  Tacos!  replied to  arkpdx @3.3    one month ago
compassion and sympathy

My question comes from neither. I don’t spend any time worrying about executed convicts and what they might or might not endure. But the law worries about it via the 8th Amendment. And since it is a concern for some, I ask why we don’t just do for humans what we are happy to do for animals? Seems to me like an obvious, inexpensive, and easy solution.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4  sandy-2021492    one month ago

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but this is one of the reasons I can't support the death penalty.

Do I know he did a terrible thing?  Yes.

Do I think he doesn't deserve to suffer?  No.

Do I think the state or its actors should be in the position to cause a painful death?  No.

Do I think death row inmates should be guinea pigs for testing new execution methods to determine whether they're effective, or "cruel and unusual"?  No.

Fire away.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
4.1  MrFrost  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4    one month ago

+1 not because I agree 100% but you make excellent points.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  MrFrost @4.1    one month ago

Thank you.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4    one month ago

I agree with most everything you said, but I'm a bit iffy on extending any type of human rights to people that have acted like animals. I'm also not crazy about the idea of human experimentation. I think bureaucrats make this issue way too complicated. I'm more interested in efficiency and economics, which may be issues people opposed to the death penalty have. death penalty executions don't happen that often, but for some reason people tasked with this decision want to make it more cost effective and don't want to get their spiritual hands dirty. in reality there are many more less expensive options with little to no suffering available and probably no shortage of people willing to carry them out. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.3  Kavika   replied to  sandy-2021492 @4    one month ago

Totally agree.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
4.4  MrFrost  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4    one month ago
Do I think death row inmates should be guinea pigs for testing new execution methods to determine whether they're effective, or "cruel and unusual"?

This is probably the only thing I am not 100% on... Science tells us a lot. We can be reasonably sure of what is going to be painful and what isn't. Just my two cents. In the end, dead is dead but I do agree that we shouldn't be in the business of causing, intentional, suffering. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
4.5  arkpdx  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4    one month ago
Do I think death row inmates should be guinea pigs for testing new execution methods to determine whether they're effective, or "cruel and unusual"?

At least it means they can do one meaningful and useful in their lives. They should be used for medical research also. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.5.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  arkpdx @4.5    one month ago

Like Mengele's "patients"?

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
4.5.2  arkpdx  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.5.1    one month ago

I knew they was coming. 

No not like mengeles victims. They were innocent people that did not deserve the treatment they received.  Death row prisoners are more than worthy of  the danders of experimentations. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.5.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  arkpdx @4.5.2    one month ago

That is in opposition to the Constitution.  We do not administer cruel and unusual punishments, and forced medical experimentation can be.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
5  MrFrost    one month ago

People OD on drugs every day all across the country...seems to me the method of execution is staring states right in the face. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1  devangelical  replied to  MrFrost @5    one month ago

exactly right. mickey the perp's last meal with fentanyl and go call the coroner.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
5.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  devangelical @5.1    one month ago
fentanyl

Cheap and plentiful in the medical industry. After I had surgery, they put me on 100 Mcg/hr, worked great. 1,500 Mcg in an IV over the course of a minute? I would think that would do it....go out high as a kite. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.2  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @5.1    4 weeks ago
perp's last meal

"here's your milkshake and a side of catsup for your burger and fries..."

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.3  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @5.1.2    4 weeks ago

slurp, chomp, ba-bump...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Junior Guide
6  Right Down the Center    one month ago

An oldie but a goodie.  Guaranteed to be painless or your money back

iStock_000002662649Large-219x300.jpg

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1  devangelical  replied to  Right Down the Center @6    one month ago

too messy. how about being dropped into salt water pool with a faulty 220v light fixture instead...

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Junior Guide
6.1.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  devangelical @6.1    one month ago

Maybe Wednesday has some extra piranha's she used on the people bullying her brother.   

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
6.1.2  shona1  replied to  devangelical @6.1    one month ago

Croc bait is better..quick, environmental friendly, no mess and doesn't cost a cent..🐊

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
6.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  devangelical @6.1    one month ago
too messy

Well you're no fun.. LOL 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1.4  devangelical  replied to  MrFrost @6.1.3    one month ago

I could easily come up with some more ways that would be a lot of fun for any spectators, but I don't need the few friends I do have here sending screen shots to the FBI. it must be that faces of death or other videos I watched decades ago...

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.1.5  cjcold  replied to  devangelical @6.1.4    one month ago

Scary how so many of us peaceful folk come up with so many cool ways to off folk.

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
6.1.6  shona1  replied to  cjcold @6.1.5    one month ago

I know..it's good isn't it..

I have been watching Lucifer on Netflix.. brilliant show and some ripper ideas..

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
6.1.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  shona1 @6.1.6    one month ago

Tom Ellis is sexy as hell.

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
6.1.8  shona1  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.7    one month ago

Yes he is a charming little devil..

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
7  mocowgirl    one month ago

This is a typical example of the personality of a murderer.  No guilt.  No remorse.  

This little girl reminds me of a cousin that became a drug addict and plotted her parents' murder for years.  Thankfully, she never went through carrying it out.  Her mother recently died of old age (80+).  And her father is making arrangements that someone oversees my cousin for the rest of her life.  They tried to hook me into being her overseer, but I declined as gracefully as I could under the circumstances.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
8  MonsterMash    one month ago

The guillotine is the fastest, least painful most humane method of execution ever used.  

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
8.1  Freefaller  replied to  MonsterMash @8    one month ago

Lol too much mental anguish for the victim prior to the chop[

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Freefaller @8.1    one month ago

only if the victims are on their backs looking up at the blade, but they won't be vocal for very long...

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.1.2  cjcold  replied to  devangelical @8.1.1    one month ago

Read somewhere that the head stays alive for awhile after it has been lopped off.

A Gallagher Sledge-O-Matic might be a more humane instrument.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.1.3  arkpdx  replied to  Freefaller @8.1    one month ago
Lol too much mental anguish for the victim prior to the chop[

So?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
8.1.4  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  cjcold @8.1.2    one month ago

Read that myself , they experimented with how long it could hear ,react to sound pain,slapped in the face, all sorts of things. And they would time it.

Thing I thought of is a chair with a pneumatic plunger mounted to penetrate the base of the skull at the brainstem,have the plunger open when it goes in and let it spin , basically windgating them ,scrambling the brainstem,quick and efficient. Just like a cattle slaughterhouse.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.1.5  cjcold  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.1.4    one month ago
And they would time it

Good work if ya can get it.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
8.1.6  Freefaller  replied to  arkpdx @8.1.3    one month ago
So?

So what?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.7  devangelical  replied to  cjcold @8.1.5    4 weeks ago

pffft, I've pulled the trigger on plenty of 4 legged vermin in my life. no difference. flat fee plus expenses...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.8  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @8.1.7    4 weeks ago

... wouldn't even miss a meal over it.

 
 
 
Waykwabu
Freshman Silent
8.2  Waykwabu  replied to  MonsterMash @8    one month ago

Many do not know it, but this was the  method used in Germany ,( other than firing squad for military offences ) up to the end World War II

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
8.2.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Waykwabu @8.2    one month ago

That method was last used in France publically in 1977, same yr Star Wars came out.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.2.2  cjcold  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8.2.1    one month ago

Star Wars was likely much more fun to watch.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.2.3  devangelical  replied to  Waykwabu @8.2    4 weeks ago

 choice of cardboard box, plastic bag, or a commemorative bowling bag...

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9  Kavika     one month ago

An interesting situation exists in the US when it comes to the death penalty and Native Americans. Since we are a sovereign nation within a nation there are many areas of the US law that do not apply. If a native commits a murder on Indian land (reservation) they cannot be executed by the US unless the Tribe consents to it. Of course, if the murder is committed on US land the federal law applies and the death penalty can be enforced.

There was a case in 2020 where a double murder was committed by two Navajo men on the Navajo rez and the tribes insisted that there be no death penalty, the victim's family also intervened and did not want an execution as did the prosecution. The DoJ intervened and demanded the death penalty which resulted in a huge fight and the Feds executed him when most all lawyers and the law said was illegal. The second person was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility. He was the only Indian on death row in the US.

Native Americans rarely if ever used the death penalty. The most severe punishment was banishment for life, which for an Indian was the same as the death penalty. Today that would not apply and life in prison is what we want.

 
 
 
goose is back
Sophomore Silent
9.1  goose is back  replied to  Kavika @9    4 weeks ago
There was a case in 2020

Wait a minute, you're saying the crime took place in 2020 and this person has been executed. Please give me the link to the case.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10  Jeremy Retired in NC    one month ago
"We saw him begin violently shaking, thrashing against the straps that held him down,"

It's not like Smith gave Elizabeth Sennett a peaceful death as a "fireplace set, a walking cane, and a piece of galvanized pipe" were used to beat her.

 
 

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