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Israel's Far Right Wants to Move Palastinians Out of Gaza It's Ideas are Gaining Attention

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  kavika  •  6 months ago  •  39 comments

Israel's Far Right Wants to Move Palastinians Out of Gaza It's Ideas are Gaining Attention


“We are here adding light after the black sabbath that the people of Israel had,” one of the men says in the video, circulating on Telegram. “We are occupying, deporting, and settling. Occupying, deporting, and settling. Did you hear that Bibi? Occupying, deporting, and settling.”

As Israel’s war against Hamas enters its fourth month, the Israeli government has said little of substance, at least in any official way, on its plans for post-war Gaza.

Hamas seized control of the territory – home to about 2.2 million Palestinians – from the Palestinian Authority in 2007, two years after Israel unilaterally withdrew all its troops and about 8,000 Jewish settlers. Who governs it after Israel’s war against Hamas concludes is an open question.


Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rejected the idea of establishing Jewish settlements, but has said only that neither Hamas nor the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority should govern the territory, and that Israel will keep “full security control.”

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, a member of Netanyahu’s right-wing Likud party, has released his own proposal, saying that there should be “no Israeli presence in the Gaza Strip,” but light on detail about what governance there would look like.


Into that void has stepped a group – once fringe, but now in the governing coalition –that hopes for full Israeli control, to   resettle Gaza and even expel Palestinians . And its ideas are permeating mainstream debate.

“We must promote a solution to encourage the emigration of the residents of Gaza,” far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said on January 1.

Far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who also holds a position in the Defense Ministry, says that Israel “will rule there. And in order to rule there securely for a long time, we must have a civilian presence.”

The United States’ top diplomat is concerned enough that he has   publicly rebuked those plans .

“These statements are irresponsible, they’re inflammatory, and they only make it harder to secure a future of Palestinian-led Gaza with Hamas no longer in control, and with terrorist groups no longer able to threaten Israel’s security,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken said during a recent trip to Qatar.


Polling in Israel on the question of re-establishing settlements varies widely, reflecting subtleties in how the question is asked, and the fact that public opinion in the wake of Hamas’ October 7 attack is wildly in flux, says Dahlia Scheindlin, a polling expert, journalist, and contributor to Israeli newspaper Haaretz.


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Kavika
Professor Principal
1  author  Kavika     6 months ago

Not all of Israel is supporting the idea of settlements in Gaza and out with the Palestinians.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @1    6 months ago

[deleted.]

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.1  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @1.1    6 months ago

bibi and his pals want the palestinians back on a reservation, somewhere else...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.2  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @1    6 months ago
Not all of Israel is supporting the idea of settlements in Gaza and out with the Palestinians.

Many people may be unaware of it-- but in the past there were Israel settlements in Gaza (as well as Palestinians living in Gaza). 

Prior to the 1967 War, Gaza was occupied by Egypt (which is why it never became an independent, newly created country to be called "Palestine"). As a result of the 1967 rule of Gaza changed from Egypt to Israel.

But after a while Israel no longer wanted to occupy Gaza so Israel left (voluntarily) and the Arabs there took over. 

And the lives of the Gazans worsened significantly from there...

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @1.2    6 months ago

That is sugar coating what Gaza was like with Israel in control in the extreme. Gaza was just like the West Bank is now when Israel was in charge. The IDF went where it wanted to and did what it wanted to; and the Israeli settlers (armed to the teeth) where backed by the IDF unconditionally. 

Up until the time Israel finally forced their settlers out it was the same old song and dance. Israel forced Palestinians out of the prime real estate and built heavily guarded walled in settlements. A few chosen Palestinians were allowed to work at the settlements- the number was very few. 

If you consider having no say in government, being arrested and detained for any reason w/o trial, kids being shot for throwing stones at IDF forces, and being forced off your land for any reason great living conditions- then Gaza was the place for you!

Let me repeat. Hezbollah, Hamas, PA, and Israel do not have the Palestinians best interests at heart. They all seek complete control (in the PA's case that means not interrupting the cash flow from Israel and US) of the land. They could care less about the people living on it.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2  Ed-NavDoc    6 months ago

Very bad idea.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2    6 months ago

That is all Zionists have.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1    6 months ago

Sad but true.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
3  afrayedknot    6 months ago

Until a two state solution is established, the carnage will continue.

We’ve drawn arbitrary boundaries before, only to find there are no limits to hate. The ongoing leadership vacuum only sucks the possibilities of positive change into the depths of despair. No one wants this. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @3    6 months ago
Until a two state solution is established, the carnage will continue.

A Palestinian state does by NO means ensure Israel's safety, or a cessation of terrorists attacks on Israel.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.1.1  author  Kavika   replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    6 months ago
A Palestinian state does by NO means ensure Israel's safety, or a cessation of terrorists attacks on Israel.

No, it does not but if some type of deal could be worked out it would be a vast improvement over the current past and current situation.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    6 months ago

Nor does Israeli occupation and rule ensure the safety of Palestinians.

Gaza (Before Hamas- and even after), The West Bank (always), and East Jerusalem (always) are prime examples.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.2  author  Kavika   replied to  afrayedknot @3    6 months ago

IMO, the leadership of all parties, Israel/Palestinians, Hamas, and the PA need to be replaced ASAP. With any of these groups keeping the same leadership will be a disaster. No settlement ever will be the result

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.3  Krishna  replied to  afrayedknot @3    6 months ago
No one wants this.

I dunno-- I think Hamas's leaders may want this. They get to play victim and get a lot of sympathy from the world as  Gaza’s people suffer. (W hile of course now  they continue to live their lives of extreme luxury....:)

          — 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.3.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.3    6 months ago
I dunno-- I think Hamas's leaders may want this. They get to play victim and get a lot of sympathy from the world as  Gaza’s people suffer. (W hile of course now  they continue to live their lives of extreme luxury....:)

Well, that is now.

Think that's a recent development?

Well, here's how their leaders lived 10 years ago:

Hamas Leaders Get Incredibly Wealthy While Gazans Suffer

(La plus que ca change....)

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
3.3.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Krishna @3.3.1    6 months ago

It’s their only respite from what the rest of Gaza goes through year after year.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.4  Krishna  replied to  afrayedknot @3    6 months ago
Until a two state solution is established, the carnage will continue.

I used to believe that. But I no longer do.

And I should mention that I think there should be two Palestinian states. (Well, there actually already are: 1-Jordan is a majority Palestinian state, 2-Gaza. Yes Gaza.

(Who rules it? Hamas-- they & their rulers) are not Jews, Israelis, Zionists-- they are as Palestinian as anyone. It just so happens they are at war. And their are foreign troops fighting on their soil. We might not like their political views but the rulers of Gaza are Palestinian).

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.4.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.4    6 months ago
I used to believe that. But I no longer do.

Why?

Here's breaking news-- just saw it tonight:

Pakistan Warns Of 'Consequences' After Iran's Deadly Bombing Killed Two Children

One country bombed another, killed children. How could we stop this sort of violence? Is anyone on NT going to argue that the tensions (and violence!) between Pakistan and Iran could end if we could only have a "two state solution"?

 Because guess what-- those two already are two separate states! Self governing, two countries. Whatever disagreements they have hasn't been solved by a "two state solution".

(Maybe there's another cause for the violence besides any lack of two separate states?)

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
3.5  Ronin2  replied to  afrayedknot @3    6 months ago

Correction.

Israel, PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran want this.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
4  Tacos!    6 months ago

I've always thought that Palestinians in Gaza, being part of the same state as Palestinians on the West Bank, is just a dumb plan. I see nothing wrong with a negotiated deal that gives Gaza to Israel, and some arguably equivalent land to Palestinians on the West Bank, so that at least those people could live together.

I understand why the idea of moving populations is alarming at first glance, but what you have now is clearly not working, and hasn't worked for 80 years. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Kavika   replied to  Tacos! @4    6 months ago

You are correct the Palestinians in Gaza and miles away the Palestinians in the West Bank is not an ideal situation but what will be run into is in the West Bank currently Israel is pushing out the Palasinians and they want all of the WB for themselves. So moving the Palestinians from Gaza to the WB seems would go against all that Israel is trying to accomplish.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
4.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Kavika @4.1    6 months ago

Yes, I think both sides need to give some land up for a deal to work. Israel could still have some presence in the West Bank, but if they ceded some territory in exchange for Gaza, it could be worth it. 

Not that I think either party would propose such a plan.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @4.1    6 months ago
You are correct the Palestinians in Gaza and miles away the Palestinians in the West Bank is not an ideal situation

Ironically, there are some interesting historical parallels between what happened when The British Mandate of Palestine and the British colony of India gained independence.

In both cases those areas had a mixed population: British India had Moslems and Hindus, British Palestine had Muslims and Jews

Both areas were to gain independence in the late 1940s (Israel & Palestine 1948, India 1947)

In both cases there were to be two new countries from the area with a new non-Muslim country in the middle of the area  and a Muslim country consisting of two parts on either end!

Originally there was a new country called "India" (mainly Hindu)-- then a new country called "Pakistan"-- but in two non-contiguous parts: West Pakistan and East Pakistan. (Two parts of the same new country!).

Note: The two parts of the same newly created country (Pakistan) are shown in Green.

256

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.1.3  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @4.1.2    6 months ago
Note: The two parts of the same newly created country (Pakistan) are shown in Green

These two parts were widely separated. Eventually East Pakistan broke off from West Pakistan to be come the new (predominently Moslem) country of "Bengladesh"

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Kavika   replied to  Tacos! @4.1.1    6 months ago

IMO the current administration in Israel is set on taking over all of WB and Gaza as well, which of course does not bode well for any settlement.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.5  author  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @4.1.3    6 months ago

In doing some research on the formation of the Jewish in the late 1800 and early 1900 there was a proposal for Israel to be in Africa and a few prominent Jews investigated the idea and in one of the World Jewish conference it was brought up and researched.

It seems that the Brits were on board with the idea.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
4.2  Krishna  replied to  Tacos! @4    6 months ago
I see nothing wrong with a negotiated deal that gives Gaza to Israel,

At first it sounds good, but there's one problem with that: Israel doesn't want Gaza!

(Remember, Israel had occupied it for a while-- then left and let the Arabs take over). 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @4.2    6 months ago

Israel left Gaza in order to concentrate it's resources on the West Bank.

The West Bank is very close to being fiat accompli at this point.

Zionists have never given up their ambitions to make Gaza a part of Israel. They are represented prominently in the current Israeli government. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  JohnRussell    6 months ago

Israel wants to kick the can down the road. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5    6 months ago

And so do the terrorists!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @5    6 months ago
Israel wants to kick the can down the road. 

Do you really believe they want things to continue as they are-- with hostages still in Hamas' hands (and probably some are being tortured)?
Do you really think Israel want to live in a situation where rockets rain down on their cities?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @5.2    6 months ago

I think some folks don't believe Israel just wants to live in peace, but somehow think the terrorists do!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.1    6 months ago
but somehow think the terrorists do!

Hamas leaders are living in peace-- I'm sure they're content with the current situation! (Of course they are not living in Gaza),

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.1    6 months ago
I think some folks don't believe Israel just wants to live in peace, but somehow think the terrorists do!

Most Israelis just want peace, but for Netanyahu and a few extremists their priority is not necessarily peace.

It seems the majority of Israelis want him out of power, but people are reluctant to change leaders in the middle of a war.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.4  author  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @5.2.2    6 months ago

Hamas leaders who do not live in Gaza are worth BILLIONS, and the Palestinian people are starving with little or no hope for the future and that was before the current war started.

At first it sounds good, but there's one problem with that: Israel doesn't want Gaza!

I not so sure about that Krish, some in the current government have voiced a wish to take all of Gaza. We know what they are doing in the WB and that is to drive out everyone that isn't Jewish using the ''settler'' BS.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.5  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @5.2.4    6 months ago
some in the current government have voiced a wish to take all of Gaza.

Some.

But I'm wondering what percentage that is?

My guess is that it might well be accurate to say that "Some in the current government are vehemently opposed to these ideas.

And then there are those who are not in, or supporting, the current government.

Remember-- Israel had occupied Gaza-- and they voluntarily left. Then they wanted to give it back to the previous occupiers (Egypt)-- but Egypt didn't want to go back either.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.6  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @5.2.4    6 months ago
some in the current government have voiced a wish to take all of Gaza.

And "some" in our current government have voiced the notion that the last election was stolen, and Trump is actually still president.

In every government (well, at least the democratic ones) there will always be some people saying various things.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5.2.7  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @5.2.3    6 months ago
Most Israelis just want peace,

Ask them for their definition of peace. It isn't the seam for all Israelis.

but for Netanyahu and a few extremists their priority is not necessarily peace.

Yet somehow they still keep getting elected. Their goal is for the West Bank and Gaza to be Israel; and for all non Jews to be gone. That won't achieve them peace- but it will allow them to further expand the borders of Israel into Syria and Lebanon at the very least when Hezbollah retaliates.

It seems the majority of Israelis want him out of power, but people are reluctant to change leaders in the middle of a war.

They may want Bibi out of power; that doesn't mean they won't replace him with an even more hard line radical. Again, there is a reason Bibi and the radicals keep getting elected.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5.2.8  author  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @5.2.5    6 months ago
Some.

“We must promote a solution to encourage the emigration of the residents of Gaza,” far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said on January 1.

My guess is that it might well be accurate to say that "Some in the current government are vehemently opposed to these ideas.

Probably so but the danger is that some in the government see the opposite.

Remember-- Israel had occupied Gaza-- and they voluntarily left. Then they wanted to give it back to the previous occupiers (Egypt)-- but Egypt didn't want to go back either.

I remember it quite well, actually before, during and after the occuption by Israel.

 
 

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