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Maine shootings updates: Suspect at large, at least 16 dead | AP News

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  7 months ago  •  102 comments

By:   AP News

Maine shootings updates: Suspect at large, at least 16 dead | AP News
Police say a firearms instructor recently treated at mental health facility is person of interest in a mass killing in Maine.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


LEWISTON, Maine (AP) — A man shot and killed at least 16 people at a restaurant and a bowling alley in Lewiston, Maine, on Wednesday and then fled into the night, sparking a massive search by hundreds of officers while frightened residents stayed locked in their homes.

A police bulletin identified Robert Card, 40, as a person of interest in the attack that sent panicked bowlers scrambling behind pins when shots rang out around 7 p.m. Card was described as a firearms instructor believed to be in the Army Reserve and assigned to a training facility in Saco, Maine.

The document, circulated to law enforcement officials, said Card had been committed to a mental health facility for two weeks in the summer of 2023. It did not provide details about his treatment or condition but said Card had reported "hearing voices and threats to shoot up" the military base. A telephone number listed for Card in public records was not in service.

Six months. 28 mass killings in the US. That's the worst yet, and all but one case involved guns?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.apnews.com%2Ff3%2F6e%2Fb5582413a258136ad16d2e422e7b%2Fcbddfd2bc6c84fe6bb0bd2f938f77fd0

The aftermath of mass shootings infiltrates every corner of survivors' lives

Lewiston Police said in an earlier Facebook post that they were dealing with an active shooter incident at Schemengees Bar and Grille and at Sparetime Recreation, a bowling alley about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) away.

One bowler, who identified himself only as Brandon, said he heard about 10 shots, thinking the first was a balloon popping.

"I had my back turned to the door. And as soon as I turned and saw it was not a balloon — he was holding a weapon — I just booked it," he told The Associated Press.

Brandon said he scrambled down the length of the alley, sliding into the pin area and climbing up to hide in the machinery. He was among a busload of survivors who were driven to a middle school in the neighboring city of Auburn to be reunited with family and friends.

"I was putting on my bowling shoes when when it started. I've been barefoot for five hours," he said.

Melinda Small, the owner of Legends Sports Bar and Grill, said her staff immediately locked their doors and moved all 25 customers and employees away from the doors after a customer reported hearing about the shooting at the bowling alley less than a quarter-mile away. Soon, the police flooded the roadway and a police officer eventually escorted everyone out of the building.

"I am honestly in a state of shock. I am blessed that my team responded quickly and everyone is safe," Small said. "But the same time, my heart is broken for this area and for what everyone is dealing with. I just feel numb."

After the shooting, police, many armed with rifles, took up positions while the city descended into eerie quiet — punctuated by occasional sirens — as people hunkered down at home.

The Androscoggin County Sheriff's Office released two photos of the suspect on its Facebook page that showed the shooter walking into an establishment with a weapon raised to his shoulder.

Two law enforcement officials told The AP that at least 16 people were killed and the toll was expected to rise. However, Michael Sauschuck, commissioner of the Maine Department of Public Safety, declined to provide a specific estimate at a news conference, calling it a "fluid situation."

The two law enforcement officials said dozens of people also had been wounded. The officials were not authorized to publicly discuss details of the ongoing investigation and spoke to AP on condition of anonymity.

On its website, Central Maine Medical Center said staff were "reacting to a mass casualty, mass shooter event" and were coordinating with area hospitals to take in patients. The hospital was locked down and police, some armed with rifles, stood by the entrances.

Meanwhile, hospitals as far away as Portland, about 35 miles (56 kilometers) to the south, were on alert to potentially receive victims.

An order for residents and business owners to stay inside and off the streets of the city of 37,000 was extended Wednesday night from Lewiston to Lisbon, about 8 miles (13 kilometers) away, after a "vehicle of interest" was found there, authorities said.

Gov. Janet Mills released a statement echoing instructions for people to shelter. She said she had been briefed on the situation and will remain in close contact with public safety officials.

President Joe Biden spoke by phone to Mills and the state's Senate and House members, offering "full federal support in the wake of this horrific attack," a White House statement said.

Maine Sen. Angus King, an independent, said he was "deeply sad for the city of Lewiston and all those worried about their family, friends and neighbors" and was monitoring the situation. King's office said the senator would be headed directly home to Maine on the first flight possible.

Local schools will be closed Thursday and people should shelter in place or seek safety, Superintendent Jake Langlais said, adding: "Stay close to your loved ones. Embrace them."

Wednesday's death toll was staggering for a state that in 2022 had 29 homicides the entire year.

Maine doesn't require permits to carry guns, and the state has a longstanding culture of gun ownership that is tied to its traditions of hunting and sport shooting.

Some recent attempts by gun control advocates to tighten the state's gun laws have failed. Proposals to require background checks for private gun sales and create a 72-hour waiting period for gun purchases failed earlier this year. Proposals that focused on school security and banning bump stocks failed in 2019.

State residents have also voted down some attempts to tighten gun laws in Maine. A proposal to require background checks for gun sales failed in a 2016 public vote.

___


Associated Press journalists Patrick Whittle in Portland, Maine, Michael Balsamo in New York, Darlene Superville in Washington, Michael Casey in Boston and Holly Ramer in Concord, New Hampshire, contributed to this report.


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sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
1  sandy-2021492    7 months ago
The document, circulated to law enforcement officials, said Card had been committed to a mental health facility for two weeks in the summer of 2023. It did not provide details about his treatment or condition but said Card had reported "hearing voices and threats to shoot up" the military base.

Why was he still in possession of a firearm?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1    7 months ago

I guess it just goes to show that even though the law says one should not have a firearm, bad guys with an axe to grind will find a  way to get their hands on one. Sad SAD story here...............256

and now.............22 dead........SMH

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.1  evilone  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1    7 months ago
I guess it just goes to show that even though the law says one should not have a firearm, bad guys with an axe to grind will find a  way to get their hands on one.

It shows that our society (in general) is more worried about keeping guns easy to get and keep than protecting lives and providing the public access to adequate mental health. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  evilone @1.1.1    7 months ago

they can't relieve the mentally unbalanced of firearms. too many trump supporters would qualify.

 
 
 
Waykwabu
Freshman Silent
1.1.3  Waykwabu  replied to  evilone @1.1.1    7 months ago

Spot on !!!!!

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.2  Snuffy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1    7 months ago

Maine does not have a Red Flag law.

Maine does not have a red flag law. Instead, it's a yellow flag or yellow paper law. It’s a process with more steps than the more assertive red flag laws in some states.

That means they do have “extreme risk protection orders” that can be used for law enforcement officers to remove firearms from the possession of people at risk of using guns to harm themselves or others. But in Maine, a medical practitioner must first “assess whether the person presents a likelihood of foreseeable harm.”

Does Maine have red flag laws? | wusa9.com

So the question I would have (as I cannot find information this early in the news cycle) is did someone start the process to enact the yellow flag laws to remove guns from this person or like so many times we have seen in the past did nobody start the process and rather ignore the issue?  Was this not started because he was released from his two-week stay at a mental facility as "they" felt enough progress had been made that he was no longer a threat?  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @1    7 months ago
Why was he still in possession of a firearm?

Why was he walking among us?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
1.3.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3    7 months ago

Likely because there aren't enough mental health facilities, and because the legal threshold for confining the dangerously mentally ill in appropriate facilities where they can receive treatment (prisons don't count), much like the threshold for confiscating their guns even after they've threatened to commit mass murder with them, is too high.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2  Greg Jones    7 months ago

Some naive and uninformed people think that more "common sense" gun laws and universal background checks will stop mass shootings.

Until and unless a person has been adjudicated by a court to be mentally ill and a danger to themselves and/or have a police record, they are free to obtain a weapon by making a legal purchase. Or as stated above, they'll find a way to get one.

As usual, politics will again rear its ugly head as the left proceeds to cast blame for the shooting upon NRA, Republicans, conservatives, et al.....before all the facts are in.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @2    7 months ago
As usual, politics will again rear its ugly head as the left proceeds to cast blame for the shooting upon NRA, Republicans, conservatives, et al.

1) If people are the problem, why would you give them guns?

2) When was the last time the NRA, Republicans or conservatives offered up a solution to the rampant mass shootings in this country, (565 this year alone)? Never. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1    7 months ago
1) If people are the problem, why would you give them guns?

Who gave them guns?

2) When was the last time the NRA, Republicans or conservatives offered up a solution to the rampant mass shootings in this country, (565 this year alone)? Never. 

Not the NRA's job to write legislation.

Democrats and others who think some new law is going to solve things are delusional.

How's about we start rigorously enforcing the gun laws on the books already before making new ones which will largely go unenforced, too?

Besides confiscation, what's your grand plan?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    7 months ago
Not the NRA's job to write legislation.

yeah, they have no skin in the game. /s

what a totally misinformed and ridiculous comment...

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    7 months ago

what a totally misinformed and ridiculous comment...

What were you expecting?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.4  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    7 months ago
Besides confiscation, what's your grand plan?

I said that where exactly? 

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    7 months ago

The NRA spends millions of dollars every year to influence legislation.  $4,920,000 in 2021, for example.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.4    7 months ago

do you have a plan or not?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    7 months ago

your comment has no relation to mine.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.8  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.6    7 months ago

do you have a plan or not?

Where did I say anything about confiscation? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.8    7 months ago

ok, got it, no plan.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @2.1.2    7 months ago
yeah, they have no skin in the game

Not what I wrote.

Funny how some will be quick to blame the NRA for stuff they didn't do.

It's crazy.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.11  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.9    7 months ago

ok, got it, no plan.

Ok got it, I didn't say anything about confiscation. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.11    7 months ago

nor do you have a plan.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.13  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.12    7 months ago

nor do you have a plan.

Where did I say I DID have a plan? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.13    7 months ago

never claimed you said you had one. I figured if one complains about something, they should have a plan to make things better instead of mere complaining.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.13    7 months ago

Blaming the NRA because they donate to candidates they find preferable hardly makes them the villians.

You don't blame teachers unions for the sorry state of education because they donate more than the NRA does, so why hold the NRA to a different standard?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.16  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    7 months ago
Who gave them guns?

Well, "access" was implied, sorry you didn't get that part. I will explain things more simply for you next time. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.17  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.1.16    7 months ago

Pretty damn sure the NRA didn't allow him access. They don't sell guns.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @2.1.5    7 months ago
A spends millions of dollars every year to influence legislation.  $4,920,000 in 2021, for example.  

Pennies on the dollar compared to what Bloomberg spends in favor of gun control

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
2.1.19  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.17    7 months ago
They don't sell guns.

Yea, I knew that one. But here is a fact you may not be aware of; guns are sold all over the country. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3  Hal A. Lujah    7 months ago

I’ve lived my whole life without guns, and will continue to do so without anxiousness and fear.  As a bonus, it is impossible for anyone to be hurt or killed by an accidental gun discharge in my house.  It is sad that so many Americans are so paralyzed with fear that the country is completely saturated with firearms, leading to huge numbers of unwarranted deaths.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
3.1  evilone  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    7 months ago
It is sad that so many Americans are so paralyzed with fear that the country is completely saturated with firearms, leading to huge numbers of unwarranted deaths.

In my opinion its not only fear that runs this culture. It's the proliferation of guns in pop culture. I love a John Wick type movie as much (or more) than the next guy, but there is no denying the rise of the American anti-hero in media has some relationship to the rise in gun ownership. This isn't the only issue, but it's a large one.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4  Trout Giggles    7 months ago
It did not provide details about his treatment or condition but said Card had reported "hearing voices and threats to shoot up" the military base. 

That's where he should have went instead of to a bowling alley where kids were bowling. He might have been stopped at the base

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @4    7 months ago

wednesday night is league night at most bowling alleys. the shooter was definitely looking for a crowd.

I saw a bunch of shit online about this guy last night when I tried looking for him on FB. I don't know how much of it was true or not. he spent 20 years in the army and was a sergeant, now a reservist. he's a registered sex offender. he spent 2 weeks in the nut house this past summer. he had a job as weapons instructor. supposedly belonged to some kind of local militia. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5  Sean Treacy    7 months ago

The progressive merry go round continues:

today: pass more gun laws!

tomorrow: vote for people who won’t charge offenders For violating gun laws! 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
5.1  George  replied to  Sean Treacy @5    7 months ago

That makes perfect sense, if you are an idiot, it's not the persons fault so he isn't responsible for his actions, the evil inanimate object made him do it. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
5.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @5.1    7 months ago

Sure, George.  And every country where gun ownership is illegal is 100% full of idiots too.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
5.1.2  George  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.1    7 months ago

Sigh, if you can't engage with an honest comment please just go away.  

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
5.1.3  afrayedknot  replied to  George @5.1    7 months ago

“…the evil inanimate object made him do it.”

No one is saying anything close to that. What any responsible citizen acknowledges is that there is a real problem.

The truly inanimate objects are the legislatures and citizenry totally unwilling to even address the ongoing carnage, totally content in their bumper-sticker sloganeering.

We are better than this. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @5    7 months ago

Same damn thing with immigration.

We don't enforce immigration laws, so we must have new ones. Makes perfect sense in La La Land.

Guns the same.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.2.1  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2    7 months ago

Texan1211: What makes you think the current immigration laws are so easy to enforce?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  Krishna @5.2.1    7 months ago

Never said anything was easy.

But not enforcing laws while calling for more seems very fucked up to me.

Pointless, even.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6  Tacos!    7 months ago

Guess you can try that in a small town.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.1  GregTx  replied to  Tacos! @6    7 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.1  George  replied to  GregTx @6.1    7 months ago

I always find it amazing how comfortable some people are posting as if stupidity were a virtue. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6.1.2  Tacos!  replied to  George @6.1.1    7 months ago

3 dozen people are dead or injured, and the piece of shit responsible is still on the loose - but you think my observation is the stupid part. SMMFH

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  GregTx @6.1    7 months ago

You first.

Sucks when a bullshit narrative is shit on, I guess. Turns out small towns aren’t magic. Evil shit happens there, too. See also: Uvalde.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.1.4  GregTx  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.2    7 months ago

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY...

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.1.5  GregTx  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.3    7 months ago

What bullshit narrative would that be?

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
6.1.6  afrayedknot  replied to  GregTx @6.1.5    7 months ago

“What bullshit narrative would that be?

That in some vigilante utopia there will always be a ‘good guy with a gun’ to take out the threat. All that entails is more armed people…too often not properly trained, too often quick on the trigger, and way too often imagining a danger that doesn’t exist. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.7  George  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.2    7 months ago

You continue to prove my point for me. Thanks

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @6.1.6    7 months ago

Surprisingly, Maine has one of the highest per capita gun ownership while have one of the lowest murder and violent crime rates.  Maybe it’s the water.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.1.9  GregTx  replied to  afrayedknot @6.1.6    7 months ago

Ahh, well then perhaps the government, local and federal, should do more to make citizens safe from criminal elements. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
6.1.10  afrayedknot  replied to  GregTx @6.1.9    7 months ago

“Ahh, well then perhaps the government, local and federal, should do more to make citizens safe from criminal elements.”

Agreed. Starting with keeping guns out of the hands of those who are an obvious or potential danger.

Been charged with a violent crime? so sorry. Have a restraining order? too bad. Has a medical professional thrown a red flag? not now. Easily legislated but here come the tired and stale deflections…

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.1.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @6.1.10    7 months ago
Been charged with a violent crime? so sorry. Have a restraining order? too bad. Has a medical professional thrown a red flag? not now. 

I'm good with those plus a much more vigorous enforcement of existing gun laws.  

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
6.1.12  evilone  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.1.8    7 months ago
Surprisingly, Maine has one of the highest per capita gun ownership while have one of the lowest murder and violent crime rates.

That aligns with what most figures state - The most recent general figures of gun deaths I've heard are rural areas have a higher rate of gun death by suicide, while larger urban areas have higher rates of gun deaths by homicide. The gun death suicide numbers were higher by nearly a third than the homicide numbers in (I think) 2022 (maybe 2021? <- I'm too tired to look it up.). The study was done to prove, or refute, the numerous articles about red state/blue state gun violence arguments.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
6.1.13  evilone  replied to  afrayedknot @6.1.10    7 months ago
Agreed. Starting with keeping guns out of the hands of those who are an obvious or potential danger. Been charged with a violent crime? so sorry. Have a restraining order? too bad. Has a medical professional thrown a red flag? not now. Easily legislated but here come the tired and stale deflections…

You won't get deflections from me as long as these proposed laws have a process for the gun owner to appeal any ruling. Rights shouldn't be taken on one person's say so without due process. Other than I'm good.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @6.1.6    7 months ago

people seem to think that everyone is packing and just waiting to open fire.

Can you name some times where someone with a gun was trying to stop a mass shooting and killed innocent folks?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
6.1.15  Krishna  replied to  George @6.1.1    7 months ago
I always find it amazing how comfortable some people are posting as if stupidity were a virtue. 

I used to feel the same way-- but that was long ago. Now (after many years online) it doesn't surprise me in the least.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
6.1.16  Krishna  replied to  GregTx @6.1.9    7 months ago
to make citizens safe from criminal elements. 

And the mentally ill.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
6.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Tacos! @6    7 months ago
Guess you can try that in a small town.

You do have to wonder where everybody's guns were.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
6.2.1  GregTx  replied to  Jack_TX @6.2    7 months ago

My guess would be out in their trucks...

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
6.2.2  Jack_TX  replied to  GregTx @6.2.1    7 months ago
My guess would be out in their trucks...

Yeah.  But I'm curious how he was able to move from one location to another.  Seems like people would have heard the shots or got a text or something.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
6.2.3  Tacos!  replied to  Jack_TX @6.2.2    7 months ago

Guns aren’t magic. It’s fine to have them, but not many people want to have the thing physically on their person 24/7.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
6.2.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Tacos! @6.2.3    7 months ago
Guns aren’t magic. 

Really?  I had no idea.

It’s fine to have them, but not many people want to have the thing physically on their person 24/7.

Obviously.  And many establishments make you leave them in the car/truck anyway.

That said, it still seems unlikely the word wasn't out in a small town while he went between the bar and the bowling alley.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
6.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @6    7 months ago

Thank god for the second amendment and all those good guys with guns. I mean without it someone could have gone on a killing spree at a bowling alley or a restaurant. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.3.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.3    7 months ago
Thank god for the second amendment and all those good guys with guns.

Surprisingly, Maine has a very high rate of gun ownership and a very low rate firearm homicide.  Maybe they have a higher ratio of good guys than the rest of the country.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
6.3.2  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @6.3.1    7 months ago
Surprisingly, Maine has a very high rate of gun ownership and a very low rate firearm homicide.  Maybe they have a higher ratio of good guys than the rest of the country.

If I'm not mistaken, Switzerland has the highest-- or one of the highest-- rates of gun ownership in Europe. And also one of the lowest if not the lowest incidents of gun violence.

(I'm not sure exactly what that means, but interesting if true)

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7  afrayedknot    7 months ago

“You do have to wonder where everybody's guns were.”

At least one should never have been allowed in the wrong hands. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
7.1  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @7    7 months ago
At least one should never have been allowed in the wrong hands. 

Well.. that ship sailed long ago.

Which won't stop people arguing about it.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1    7 months ago

“Well.. that ship sailed long ago.”

Meaning just what?

We accept the fact that more innocents will die because we lack the courage to do what is necessary?

We have the capacity but somehow lack the will…the most damning indictment imaginable…all under the tragic backdrop of yet another set of families preparing to bury their loved ones.

Again, we must be better. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
7.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.1    7 months ago
Meaning just what?

Meaning that the scope of the problem far exceeds the reasonable expectations of efficacy for any popular "solution".

We accept the fact that more innocents will die because we lack the courage to do what is necessary?

What ... exactly... in your mind constitutes "what is necessary"?

We have the capacity

How fancifully optimistic.  

but somehow lack the will…the most damning indictment imaginable…all under the tragic backdrop of yet another set of families preparing to bury their loved ones.

Odd how nobody gives a shit about "loved ones" or complains about "lack of will" when the victims are poor black boys gunned down by other poor black boys and "what is necessary" is actually possible but takes a massive amount of work.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.3  afrayedknot  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.2    7 months ago

“Odd how nobody gives a shit about "loved ones" or complains about "lack of will" when the victims are poor black boys gunned down by other poor black boys…” 

If you have nothing to contribute but a poorly veiled racial trope then you really do have nothing to contribute. Be safe. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
7.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.3    7 months ago

Exactly, yours was a contribution and a half.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
7.1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.3    7 months ago
a poorly veiled racial trope

What a wonderfully clean and easy way to rationalize indifference.  But statistics can be inconvenient when they don't go your way.

But for me personally, that idea involves actual names of very real, very dead kids who played football or basketball for me.  Reggie.  Chris.  Jordan.

They don't matter less because they're black.  Well... they shouldn't.  But we lose about 10,000 of them every year and nobody says a word. 

A few white people get shot and it's time to rewrite the Constitution.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.6  afrayedknot  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.5    7 months ago

“A few white people get shot and it's time to rewrite the Constitution.”

Unbelievable how far you missed the point. Blank. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
7.1.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.6    7 months ago
Unbelievable how far you missed the point.

Fill us in.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
7.1.8  Krishna  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.5    7 months ago
A few white people get shot

Is it really only a few? 

(Curious minds want to know)

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
7.1.9  Jack_TX  replied to  Krishna @7.1.8    7 months ago
Is it really only a few? 

Absolutely.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
7.1.10  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @7.1.6    7 months ago
Unbelievable how far you missed the point. Blank. 

I noticed you have yet to define "what is necessary". 

Do tell.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8  afrayedknot    7 months ago

“Well.. that ship sailed long ago.”

Meaning just what?

We accept the fact that more innocents will die because we lack the courage to do what is necessary? We have the capacity but somehow lack the will…the most damning indictment imaginable…as yet another set of families prepare to bury their loved ones.

Again, we must be better. 

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
8.1  shona1  replied to  afrayedknot @8    7 months ago

Morning afray...not sure it is a lack of courage.

It's more a case of it's all to late and an over whelming problem that no one really knows how to tackle.

And unfortunately it stems from toddlers to adults either accidentally or deliberately shooting people...

We have guns, lots of guns, have more guns now since our Port Arthur massacre...

But we have very different mentality and mind set towards guns...and so far it has worked for us.

Yes we still have shootings and stabbings, but not in the numbers and frequency of the US and hopefully never do...

Once was enough for us...🥀🥀🥀

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9  CB    7 months ago

It's. . .interesting. Now the 'best of us' have broken out as a spree killer. It's evidence of things left unchecked and allowed to rise or fall on its own. I am grateful that this individual did not get some rest and resume (today) with more killings. Hopefully, Friday will be a good day for the Eastern United States too!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
10  Krishna    7 months ago

Brandon said he scrambled down the length of the alley, sliding into the pin area and climbing up to hide in the machinery.

I was going to say "Let's Go Brandon" but I won't out of respect for the victims of this horrendous tragedy.

BTW I had read that other modern countries only a have a small percentage of gun violence victims compared to the U.S. jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png . Its really to bad that there's nothing we can to to fix our problem of gun violence. jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
11  Trout Giggles    7 months ago

I was listening to a little girl relate her experience on the news this morning and it struck me. Are we prepared for the mental illness that may arise from the survivors of a mass shooting? This little girl seemed scared and anxious and why wouldn't she be? She went out for a night of bowling and got a lifetime of terror.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
11.1  mocowgirl  replied to  Trout Giggles @11    7 months ago
Are we prepared for the mental illness that may arise from the survivors of a mass shooting?

No.  

It doesn't have to involve a mass shooting.  Almost all people suffer mental trauma from witnessing violence of any form whether it is in the home, school, workplace, bar, shopping center, etc.  The experience will change their brain.  Some people will develop a kind of self-imposed amnesia, but may be triggered whenever they are exposed to aggressive people.  There are so many different factors on how much violence a person can witness or withstand before a complete break with reality.

Funeral homes offer grief counseling for people who are devastated by a loss of a loved one due to old age.  Yet, there is a severe lack of support for victims of violence at any age.  Maybe it could be because our politicians have lived lives so far from violence they just don't care or maybe they just don't care period. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
11.1.1  CB  replied to  mocowgirl @11.1    7 months ago
Maybe it could be because our politicians have lived lives so far from violence they just don't care or maybe they just don't care period. 

Nope. Conservatives are simply ideologues. Democrats at least have offered their votes, their time to write legislation, and been verbose on the subject of guns, deaths from guns, and doing better as a society with guns. . . .  They can't get support from conservatives—especially MAGA. Let's speak plainly about the issue and those who do nothing to make it better or fix it once and for all.

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
11.1.2  mocowgirl  replied to  CB @11.1.1    7 months ago
Democrats at least have offered their votes, their time to write legislation, and been verbose on the subject of guns, deaths from guns, and doing better as a society with guns. . . . 

What makes people violent?  Guns?

I would say most violent people have more in common with the man in the following news article than they do will the vast majority of gun owners in the US.  Society needs protected from the mentally ill who use whatever tools they have at hand (including their own hands) to torture whoever they can gain power over.

Only four, of the nine children, managed to mentally escape their authority figure's indoctrination enough to physically distance themselves from him.  Sadly, if they ever breed, they will probably follow their father's example of child rearing and so will their children.  The cycle of abuse is very difficult to break when children are raised to believe that abuse if love.  I am a product of such indoctrination.  I left "home" at 17 and did not return.  I have still spent my lifetime paying for the indoctrination I received as a child.

'My father strangled me until I thought I was dead... then he let go': Children of Dutch doomsday cult tell of horrors of being held hostage by cultist parent who abused them for nearly a decade | Daily Mail Online

'My father strangled me until I thought I was dead... then he let go': Children of Dutch doomsday cult tell of horrors of being held hostage by cultist parent who abused them for nearly a decade

  • Gerrit-Jan Van Dorsten kept children at farmhouse in village of Ruinerwold
  • He was deemed unfit to stand trial in 2021 after suffering a stroke 

For nearly a decade, they were at the mercy of a father who saw himself as the new Messiah. 

In a case that shocked the Netherlands, Gerrit-Jan van Dorsten was alleged to have confined nine of his children to the family's farmhouse in a remote   Dutch   village, in the apparent belief he was preparing them for a new society called Eden. 

There it was alleged that he sexually abused two of children, and repeatedly assaulted the others.

This week, the award-winning Dutch TV documentary series about the saga began airing on the   BBC  and was released in full online. 

It features testimony from the four eldest children who opted to break away from their father's influence - the other five have chosen to remain loyal to him. 

Son Shin, 31, tells viewers in the third episode how the 'worst experiences were the strangling', with the father allegedly holding his grip on his son's throat until 'you thought you were dead.'

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
11.2  CB  replied to  Trout Giggles @11    7 months ago

I thought the same thing when listening to 'her' - as I am sure we saw the same child on the networks. It really broke my heart that she is the "voice" of a generation of kids and I think the young girls said she was shot in the leg? Then, she asked the million dollar question that is impactful to me: " Why do people do this to  each other.  Of course, the "grown-up" conservatives will ignore her or just be immeasurably happy that she possibly did not get on their airways!

I would not wish a 'wartime' scenario and a gunshot or gunshots on any one at-known a child. I have never been shot at or shot. This child, these children have more experience with guns than me. Yes! A lifetime of terror or at least a certain expectation of "doom" awaits each and everyone of them. As they have seen violence on a scale that I have not and I am old(er) now!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
12  JBB    7 months ago

What must we pay for your gun freedom? Life? Liberty? Happiness?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
12.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @12    7 months ago

We might start enforcing existing laws and prosecuting criminals. The libs are notoriously soft on crime and punishment.

Killer has been found dead by self-inflicted gunshot. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
12.1.1  CB  replied to  Greg Jones @12.1    7 months ago

Conservatives are "notoriously" hard in support of the 2nd Amendment. Ad nauseam. It would be comical if it as not so deadly, how conservatives have left this country exposed to gun violence by a sheer love for guns and hatred of liberals their fellow citizens. Disrespect of people and their livelihood continues. . . . 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
12.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @12    7 months ago

Last Father’s Day Weekend and the CPD called it a success.

CHICAGO (WLS) -- Chicago shootings over the holiday weekend have left more than 75 shot, 14 fatally, police said.

Interim CPD Supt. Fred Waller held a press conference on Tuesday afternoon, saying there was progress this holiday weekend. Still, he admitted more needs to be done.

My gun freedom cost Chicago nothing.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
12.2.1  Krishna  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.2    7 months ago
there was progress this holiday weekend

WTF?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
12.2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Krishna @12.2.1    7 months ago

I thought the same thing when I read the interim Chicago Police Department Superintendent’s words.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
13  MrFrost    7 months ago

512

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
13.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  MrFrost @13    7 months ago

Are you recommending censorship? Which of these favorite accounts is most likely to have caused the killing of 18 white people?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
13.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @13.1    7 months ago
Are you recommending censorship?

Did I suggest that or say that?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
13.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  MrFrost @13.1.1    7 months ago

Then what was the point of 13 ?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
13.1.3  devangelical  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @13.1.2    7 months ago

which of those accounts or personalities do you follow?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
13.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @13.1.3    7 months ago

None, you?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
13.1.5  George  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @13.1.4    7 months ago

It is being reported his favorite band is Nickleback, obviously anybody who likes Nickleback is a head case.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
13.1.6  Krishna  replied to  MrFrost @13.1.1    7 months ago
Did I suggest that or say that?

No.

 
 

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