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The Satanic Temple: Think you know about Satanists? Maybe you don't - BBC News

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  hal-a-lujah  •  last year  •  90 comments

By:   Little Nicky (BBC News)

The Satanic Temple: Think you know about Satanists? Maybe you don't - BBC News
Rituals, blasphemy, and English Breakfast tea: Step inside The Satanic Temple's annual convention.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



This may be the world's largest ever gathering of Satanists - and it's about to begin at a Marriott hotel in downtown Boston.

In a candle-lit room set aside for Satanic ceremonies, a neon sign welcomes you to The Little Black Chapel. A raised altar stands at one end, a white pentagram on the floor in front of it.

The ritual being performed here is an "unbaptism", in which participants symbolically reject religious rites performed when they were children.

"No names," says a Satanist who agreed to let me witness their ceremony, as long as they aren't identified.

They wear a floor-length, hooded cloak and a black face mask. Their hands are bound with rope, which is then cast off to represent liberation. Pages are torn out of a Bible to symbolise overturning their Christian baptism.

It's clear the experience was powerful for them.

"As a gay child, being told you are an abomination and should be destroyed, warped a lot of my thinking. Finding The Satanic Temple has really helped me embrace logic and empathy."

The Satanic Temple is recognised as a religion by the US government, and has ministers and congregations in America, Europe and Australia.

More than 830 people snapped up tickets for its late April convention, dubbed SatanCon.

Members say they don't actually believe in a literal Lucifer or Hell. Instead, they say Satan is a metaphor for questioning authority, and grounding your beliefs in science. The sense of community around these shared values makes it a religion, they say.

They do use the symbols of Satan for rituals - for example when celebrating a wedding or adopting a new name. That might include having an upside-down neon cross on your altar while shouting: "Hail Satan!"

For many Christians, this is serious blasphemy.

"That's not wrong," agrees Dex Desjardins, a spokesperson for The Satanic Temple. "A lot of our imagery is inherently blasphemous.

"We've got folks who wear inverted crosses. And our opening ceremony did have the ripping up of a Bible as a symbol of oppression, especially oppression of LGBTQ folk and women, and also the BIPOC community, and pretty much anybody who's grown up with religious trauma, which is a tremendous number of our members."

The Satanists say they respect everyone's right to choose their faith, and they're not trying to upset people.

But Christian protesters from many denominations have gathered outside the hotel, carrying signs warning of damnation.

"Repent and believe the Gospel," urges one. "Satan rules over all the children of pride," says another - the letters of "pride" shaded in the rainbow colours of the LGBTQ Pride flag.

"We are hoping to show God that we do not accept this blasphemy, and that we Catholics have not abandoned the public square to Satanists," says protester Michael Shivler, from a conservative Catholic group.

Convention-goers in the lobby eye the protest outside. "They called us 'dope-smoking masturbators'," one man reports. "Oooh, sky daddy is mad with me!" someone else jokes.

The event takes up the whole fourth floor of the hotel. The Satanists fill it with androgynous goth chic, flamboyant robes, hand-painted horns, diabolical tattoos, and high-maintenance moustache choices.

Most people here are old enough to be parents, and several are. I spot at least one pushchair.

Presentations are given, including one called "Hellbillies: Visible Satanism in Rural America", and a seminar on Satanism and self-pleasure.

Political activism is a core part of The Satanic Temple's identity. It believes religion and the state should be kept separate, and frequently files lawsuits in the US to defend the distinction. Their point is serious, but they relish bringing satire and outrageousness to the fight.

In Oklahoma, for example, they asked to erect an 8ft (2.4m) Satanic statue at the state capitol when a monument of the Ten Commandments was put up, noting that the First Amendment requires all religions to be treated equally. (The Commandments were ultimately removed after a court battle.)

The Temple also advocates for abortion access, arguing that everyone should have autonomy over their own body.

Earlier this year, it opened an online clinic based in New Mexico, which provides abortion pills by mail.

It has also developed an abortion ritual for people terminating a pregnancy - which is designed to be comforting and involves reciting an affirmation before the abortion - and argues its members must be religiously exempt from abortion bans that would stop them performing it.

That rationale has drawn criticism from some quarters, including in Catholic newspaper the National Catholic Register which called the ritual "nothing more than a grotesque parodying of religious rituals and symbols".

The Yellowhammer Fund, which finances low-income people seeking abortions, declared that "putting your dollars and trust in grassroots organisations that have been doing this work for decades" was a better way to support abortion access.

In a hall packed with supporters, the directors of TST's campaigns present updates on their work. Successes are greeted with whoops, applause, and the sign of the horns.

Another project drawing headlines is After School Satan Clubs - slogan: "Educatin' with Satan". The Temple would rather keep religion out of schools, but wants to counter faith groups coming in to evangelise to pupils.

So where local people have asked it to, it tries to launch an After School Satan Club, focused on community service, science, crafts and critical thinking.

Opponents say it's frightening children, but TST says its content is demon-free. They have a kids' song - My Pal Satan - with a bopping animated goat, and the lines: "Satan's not an evil guy, he wants you to learn and question why. He wants you to have fun and be yourself - and by the way there is no hell."

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Dozens of artists and vendors have set up stalls to sell Satanically inspired crafts. They have everything from "Satan Loves You!" beanies, to crocheted toys modelled on the Baphomet - a goat-headed Satanist symbol with wings.

The Satanic Temple is selling its own T-shirts too. The group doesn't take membership fees, and is kept running largely off donations and merch sales.

A newly launched children's book, titled Goodnight Baphomet, draws coos from bystanders.

The Satanic Temple's code of guiding principles - the Seven Tenets - prioritises empathy, control over one's own body, and respect for other people's freedoms, including the freedom to offend.

Translate that into a kids' book, and it includes rhymes like: "Respect everyone's right to be, especially when they disagree. If their words make you mad, set them free - don't be sad!"

Araceli Rojas, who flew from California to be here, finds the tenets relatable and easy to apply.

"I feel like I've always been quote-unquote a Satanist, I just didn't know it."

She says she first learned about TST through TikTok in 2020. "At that point I looked into it. A little scared, I think, like most would be. And I really wanted to make sure that they weren't sacrificing babies! Then I started getting into the culture, and the scene, and I started to join meetings… and eventually I realised no, they're not, it's just a symbol that they use and it's genuinely really good people."

Chatting around the merch stalls, many people say their intro to The Satanic Temple came from the 2019 documentary Hail Satan?, directed by Penny Lane, which explores the Temple's principles and early activism.

TST says it boosted membership from perhaps 10,000 in 2019, to more than 700,000 today.

Those gathered in Boston include local government staff, medics, engineers, artists, people in finance, a social worker, a therapist, and a circus performer. Many belong to the LGBTQ community. Plenty are married to Christians - or at least to non-Satanists.

Members tend to lean to the left politically, but there's no political test to join and the Temple will not endorse any party or candidate.

Lucien Greaves, The Satanic Temple's co-founder, arrives with personal security, dressed in black and carrying a Thermos. "English breakfast tea. I got it from a shop that sells British stuff." He smiles when I accidentally say "bless you!"

Greaves (a pseudonym) started the movement a decade ago with a friend, Malcolm Jarry (also a pseudonym). They shared a commitment to religious freedom, and opposing what they see as Christianity encroaching on legislation.

News outlets, especially in the US, often present The Satanic Temple as attention-seeking pranksters pretending to be a religion, something he strongly objects to.

"People are hesitant to take anything we say at face value, but I feel like everything we say is pretty straightforward and we're not misrepresenting ourselves at all."

If you're trying not to look like trolls, was it wise to name your abortion clinic "Samuel Alito's Mom's Satanic Abortion Clinic", after the Supreme Court judge who backed the decision to remove the federal right to abortion? And then put it on a T-shirt?

"Part of the consideration was refusing to yield to this idea that everything must be sober and humourless to be authentic at all," says Greaves.

"My thinking on that was - nothing could be more serious than us opening a telehealth clinic. I just would hate to see us lose any sense of humour." Greaves has had to adjust his life to deal with the personal risks he faces as America's most prominent Satanist.

"I moved at some point within the past four years and I don't even have people over, because I don't want to have to move again."

Some TST members feel unable to acknowledge openly that they're involved, citing risks to their safety. Members who have been outed have lost their jobs, lost their children in custody battles, and found fake bombs under their cars.

Chalice Blythe, spokesperson for the Temple's religious reproductive rights campaign, received online harassment in the middle of SatanCon, after footage went viral of her tearing a Bible during the opening ceremony.

It's not the first time she's been threatened. In 2016, a family member leaked her details online and a gunman turned up at her home.

The gunman "said 'this is what I'm here to do - I have this gun with that bitch's name on it.' I know they went to jail.

"Legally changing my name, I've had to do that."

As far as she's concerned, it's worth it. "If my enemies are people of a crazy evangelical mindset who want to take my rights away - those are the kind of enemies I'm proud to have."

Typhon Nyx, in his 30s, is one of many TST members who uses an alternative name in the community - a "Satanym", as they call it. He says he moved from atheism to Satanism only recently.

"Satanism stands for everything I believe in," he says. "Including bodily autonomy, compassion, respect, science. And Satan represents those who were cast out, those who think differently.

"I never found my friends being accepted in the Christian circles. The appeal of Satan is that he is the accepting one, the inclusive one, and someone I can more identify with.

"Although, I don't believe he actually exists."


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Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah    last year

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1    last year

according to the 1st amendment, just as valid of a religion as any of the bible thumping religions out there...

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  devangelical @1.1    last year

according to the 1st amendment, just as valid of a religion as any of the bible thumping religions out there...

Technically it is just another sect of the christian religion.

  • Catholic
  • Protestant
  • Baptist
  • Satanic
  • etc.

They're all based on the same mythology book.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2  Ender    last year

512

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3  Ed-NavDoc    last year

May be for some but definitely not for me.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.1  cjcold  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3    last year

Anybody who worships anything makes me keep a gun and a knife handy.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  cjcold @3.1    last year

Your choice. This is a free country.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @3.1    last year

Exactly, many Americans live in fear these days, justified or not.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.2    last year

I keep my 9mm and a K-Bar in a safe three feet away from me in my bedroom, only I'm not worried about anybody worshipping anything. I worry more about illegals coming across the AZ/Mexico border 6 blocks away from my house.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
3.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.3    last year

Not worrying about worshippers seems very risky to me. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4  Sean Treacy    last year

Another religion bigots can celebrate while attacking Christianity in the name of the atheism.   

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year

Good thing Christians never do that to atheists, huh? Or those of non-Christian faiths.  Or the LGBTQ community.  Or those who support a woman’s rights over her body.  Etc etc.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1    last year

As long as you are honest about what you are doing. 

90% of the hate I've seen is from atheists directed at Christians, and typically only Christians.   Easy to punch down at people who won't punch back. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.1    last year

Yep, Atheists tend to think they are all that and a bag of chips.

Atheism = Narcissism central

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.1.3  George  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.2    last year

It hard to have any respect for people who believe in nothing.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  George @4.1.3    last year

I have no respect for those who support nobodies aka the former 'president'

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.1    last year

What a load of horseshit.  Those phonier than thou small c 'christians' punch first and often and are nothing like the Christ they pretend to emulate.  They're nothing but ignorant bullies.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  George @4.1.3    last year

They believe in one thing for sure.

Their own ego.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.7  bugsy  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.1    last year
and typically only Christians

You will never see them say anything about Islam....

You know...the religion that beheads you if you don't fully engross your life in Allah.

But, hey, let's go after the religion that won't cut your head off.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
4.1.8  Gordy327  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.1    last year
90% of the hate I've seen is from atheists directed at Christians, and typically only Christians.   Easy to punch down at people who won't punch back. 

Perhaps christians are receiving as good as they're giving! And then whining about it.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
4.1.9  Gordy327  replied to  George @4.1.3    last year
It hard to have any respect for people who believe in nothing.

Who says atheists don't believe in nothing? They simply do not believe (are not convinced) in god/s. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
4.1.10  George  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.9    last year

Who says atheists don't believe in nothing?

I just did, 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.11  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.7    last year
You will never see them say anything about Islam....

Who is 'them'?

Islam is arguably worse than Christianity in its net influence over society and thus the resulting behavior (and laws) based on beliefs that are not based on facts / evidence.

The USA's predominant category of religion is Christianity, not Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or ... so naturally Christianity will be the category of religion in most discussions.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  George @4.1.10    last year

Your position is naïve.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.13  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.11    last year
Who is 'them'?

"Them" are atheists...as what the discussion was about.

"so naturally Christianity will be the category of religion in most discussions."

Only with leftists when the need to have a boogyman they need to make derogatory remarks about.

Never anything about any other religion, when all of them have a god of some sort.

BTW...I don't normally discuss religion, so don't expect this to be a long thread.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.13    last year

Then you do not understand atheism.

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god.   Allah of Islam is no different than Yahweh, Jesus, Brahma, Zeus, etc. from the perspective of an atheist.   Satan is also viewed similarly.

Christianity is the dominant category of religion in the USA so naturally it will be most often discussed and criticized.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.15  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.14    last year
Then you do not understand atheism.

I understand enough...

"Allah of Islam is no different than Yahweh, Jesus, Brahma, Zeus, etc. from the perspective of an atheist.   Satan is also viewed similarly."

Like I said, they all have a belief in a "god", or at least praise what they perceive as a higher being.

"Christianity is the dominant category of religion in the USA so naturally it will be most often discussed and criticized"

You said this already. No need to do it again.

Religion is not my thing.

I'm out...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.15    last year
You said this already. No need to do it again.

Did you understand it this time?    If so, then you should understand that it is illogical for atheists to not believe in one god more than we do not believe in any other god.   All of the typical gods of lore and contemporary beliefs are equal in terms of disbelief.   Allah is no more believable than Yahweh.   And the category of Christianity is no different from the category of Islam in that both declare their gods as having certain existence with all sorts of properties, expectations and actions.

However, if one were to define 'god' as 'that which enabled our existence' then even atheists would believe in that 'god' because its existence is based on evidence (proof, even, since we are the proof of our existence).   And if another 'god' is defined with such persuasive evidence, many atheists would likely no longer be such.   It all depends on how 'god' is defined and the persuasiveness of the supporting evidence (and proof would be even better).

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
4.1.17  Gordy327  replied to  George @4.1.10    last year

Then prove it. Otherwise you're just making a sweeping generalization. All you really know is what atheists do not believe in. Regardless, what's the problem with not having or going by belief? That would leave more room for logic and reason.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.18  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.16    last year

Some folks confuse atheism with agnosticism.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.19  TᵢG  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.18    last year
Some folks confuse atheism with agnosticism.

I would say that some folks incorrectly define atheism as strictly gnostic atheism.   Agnosticism itself is a statement of knowledge and knowability ... it is secular in nature.   It is theism (and atheism) that brings in the notion of a god.

Atheism has an agnostic faction and a gnostic faction:

  • Agnostic atheists are those who are not convinced a god exists.   
  • Gnostic atheists are those who are certain that no god exists.

Big difference between the two in that agnostic atheists leave open the possibility of a god whereas gnostic atheists irrationally hold a belief that no god could possibly exist.

Most (supermajority) atheists are agnostic atheists.   We (agnostic atheists) simply are not (yet) persuaded that a god exists.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.19    last year
Most (supermajority) atheists are agnostic atheists.   We (agnostic atheists) simply are not (yet) persuaded that a god exists.

What you are describing is Agnostic not Atheist.     The main difference being, one doesn’t believe in the existence of God and one believes it isn’t possible to know God exists for sure.

You can’t really have it both ways.    Not by definition anyways.    If you believe God “could” exist but simply aren’t persuaded that God exists, then you are Agnostic not Atheist.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.20    last year
What you are describing is Agnostic not Atheist.  

You are using a simplistic definition of 'agnostic' applied to belief in god.    That simplistic definition actually has two factions.   If you insist on using 'agnostic' to describe theological positions then recognize that there are both agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

  • Agnostic atheist ≡ not persuaded that a god exists but the possibility remains open (i.e. a god might exist)
  • Agnostic theist ≡ believes in a god but recognizes that the god might not actually exist (i.e. belief might be wrong)
If you believe God “could” exist but simply aren’t persuaded that God exists, then you are Agnostic not Atheist.

You described an agnostic atheist.   One who believes (with certainty) that no god exists would be a gnostic atheist.

Here is an article I wrote years ago detailing this:  .   

Importantly, you can search the web and find plenty of treatment of this exact subject matter.   Here, for example, is an article that nearly matches mine but was written years after mine:  .   You will sometimes find adjectives such as weak and strong  instead of agnostic and gnostic but the concepts are the same.

In short, there is more to this subject than simplistic "agnostic vs atheist" notions.

Further, agnosticism proper has nothing to do with god.


Bottom line, I do NOT consider myself an 'agnostic' because a) that is a term of knowledge and b) that term does not properly specify my position

I am not persuaded a god exists thus I fall under the general category of atheist.

I am not certain no god exists thus I fall under the more specific subcategory of agnostic atheist.

I am definitely NOT an agnostic theist.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.22  Sean Treacy  replied to  bugsy @4.1.7    last year
You will never see them say anything about Islam....

Yep, they aren't protesting outside mosques or mocking the prophet. Just make fun of Christians, knowing its perfectly safe. 

But they feel so edgy!. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.23  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.22    last year
Yep, they aren't protesting outside mosques or mocking the prophet. Just make fun of Christians, knowing its perfectly safe. 

Yeah, life is more nuanced (and complicated) than the simplistic stereotype you hold.   (And I doubt these are atheists by the way.)

And I will also repeat the fact that Christianity holds the super majority in the USA.   Muslims comprise about 1.1% of the USA population so Islam is a blip compared to the 800lb gorilla in the nation — Christianity.    You should easily see why Christianity will be the natural category of religion discussed in the USA.

This is a feel good story with a happy ending so no violence, just a protest.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.21    last year
You are using a simplistic definition of 'agnostic' applied to belief in god. 

True, I am using the accepted definitions.   They are simple, accepted definitions.    Not an unaccepted, created definition.

This is a case of apples and oranges.    The separation between the two can not be more distinct.    How a person in one breath says they don’t believe in a God and in the next breath accepts the possibility a God many exist but is not logical.

Position A (atheist) = no God

Position B (agnostic) = accepts the possibility of a God.

The two can not exist together, without contradicting each other.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.25  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.24    last year
True, I am using the accepted definitions.

Do you recognize that there are simplistic words for basic ideas — words that are good enough for a general albeit inaccurate understanding  —  and then there are more specific words which bring out nuances and provide for a deeper, more accurate understanding?

For example, the word 'bridge' is simplistic and captures a basic idea, but when dealing with a more sophisticated audience (say civil engineers) we can be (and should be) more specific and speak of suspension, truss, arch, cantilever, etc. bridges.   (And of course we have already distinguished the roadway bridge from, say, dental bridges or grammatical bridges.)   Surely you can see why the use of more specific nomenclature is important.

Position A (atheist) = no God Position B (agnostic) = accepts the possibility of a God.

Your positions, as I noted, are simplistic and inaccurate.   Life is far more complex than the simplistic reality you offer.

If someone has a desire to learn about a topic (not suggesting you have any such desire), they necessarily are open to more nuanced details and terminology than the colloquial usage.   Insisting that only the most simplistic words be used (as you are doing) is silly.

Your position B includes both theists and atheists who have very different positions on the existence of a god but share the position that nobody can really know if a god exists or not.

The more specific (and well-established) terms 'agnostic atheist' and 'agnostic theist' capture these different but overlapping positions in a much more specific and useful fashion.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1.27  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.8    last year

The hilarious part is that Christians are famous for claiming certain Christians aren’t real Christians, even when those Christians claim to be real Christians.  Makes it real easy to frame your group as pious and virtuous when you get to reject the members that don’t fit your particular narrative.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1.28  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @4.1.3    last year

It hard to have any respect for people who believe in nothing.

ROFL.  Yes, so much easier to respect those who believe that a god murdered a planet full of innocent people with an impossibly massive flood.  Particularly when the vast majority of them knew nothing of that god’s existence or it’s ridiculous commands of them.  With a god like that who needs satan?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1.29  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.1    last year

Easy to punch down at people who won't punch back. 

Riiight.  I wonder how many Christians have to legally change their names to protect themselves from those atheists punching down on them.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.1.30  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @4.1.10    last year

Who says atheists don't believe in nothing?

I just did, 

Its not often we get to witness such doubling down on stupid.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.31  devangelical  replied to  Gordy327 @4.1.8    last year
Perhaps christians are receiving as good as they're giving! And then whining about it.

yeah but, they're so special... /s

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.32  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.22    last year

Where have you seen Satanists/atheists/others protesting out side Christian churches?

The answer is....you haven't. But the Christians feel it's their duty to protest SatanCon tho nobody is bothering them. They are only bothering themselves because they feel bothered that someone actually believes different than they do

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
4.1.33  Gordy327  replied to  devangelical @4.1.31    last year

They seem to certainly think so.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.34  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1.27    last year

Many evangelical protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christians which I find hilarious because they both believe in the basic dogma of Christianity....born of a virgin...died on a cross to wash away sins

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.35  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.34    last year

... originating from a single couple and populating the world by practicing incest and pedophilia.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.36  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @4.1.35    last year

I don't how kids today accept this idiocy

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1.37  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @4.1.35    last year

You forgot, Noah, Shem, Ham and Japeth and their wives.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.38  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @4.1.15    last year

you obviously DON'T understand

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.39  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1.30    last year

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.40  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.37    last year

Where did the wives come from? Sisters?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.41  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @4.1.40    last year

Let's face it....the Noah family had a lot of first cousins marrying and having children. So we can forget about Adam, Eve, and all that incestuous behavior. I wonder if that's how the fundie Christians justify it?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.42  devangelical  replied to  JBB @4.1.40    last year

... the next gated community over.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.43  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.41    last year

... god's will. here, have a cracker and a swig of grape juice...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.44  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @4.1.43    last year

Catholics drink real wine...those fussy evangelicals have to have grape juice

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1.45  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @4.1.40    last year

Where did the sons come from?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.46  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.44    last year

it would make them want to dance, and incest would probably result from that...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1.47  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @4.1.40    last year

Beats me.  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.48  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.45    last year

Where from? The sons of Adam and Eve?

Surely you can figure that one out, alone...

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.49  devangelical  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @4.1.47    last year

the end of that line is 2 blocks down... /s

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
4.1.50  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @4.1.49    last year

2 blocks down from what?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.51  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  bugsy @4.1.7    last year

That's why they call it conversion by force.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5  Texan1211    last year
"I never found my friends being accepted in the Christian circles. The appeal of Satan is that he is the accepting one, the inclusive one, and someone I can more identify with. "Although, I don't believe he actually exists."

Seems logical, accepting of something you don't even believe in.

Smart cookie there!

/s

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
5.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Texan1211 @5    last year

Yes, we are all aware of your numerous comments that exhibit a total failure to understand symbolism.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1    last year
Yes, we are all aware of your numerous comments that exhibit a total failure to understand symbolism.  

The symbolism of something even its adherents don't believe exists?

That isn't symbolism, that's just whack!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @5    last year
Seems logical, accepting of something you don't even believe in.   ...  /s

Are you accepting of Santa Claus and the good spirit that character brings?

Do you believe Santa Claus actually exists?

Do the math.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5.2.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @5.2    last year

Personally, whatever religious beliefs I may have I keep to myself and I refuse to proselytize or preach to others who are welcome to their own beliefs. Respect my right to mine and I will respect others in kind.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5.2.1    last year

we have a green river ordinance, so I just call the cops on door to door religious wackos...

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6  Sparty On    last year
I never found my friends being accepted in the Christian circles.

Then it’s pretty simple.  

Don’t blame the religion.    

Find new friends.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
7  Hallux    last year

The manifestation of what 'we' call Satan today is a centuries long construct brought to 'life' by the Puritans and their grip on reality was highly questionable.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Hallux @7    last year

What - you’re not interested in eternal life amongst the boring people you had the least in common with in life, listening to shitty harp music in an environment free of sex, cussing, gambling, intoxicants, and anything else that is actually fun?!  But think of all that milk and honey you’ll be missing out on.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
7.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1    last year

Something like that.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1    last year

Sounds like a Bloom County strip from so many years ago - when talking about heaven someone said that everyone goes to heaven, and you just know that that really pisses off those phonier than thou small c 'christians' to no end

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8  evilone    last year

It's important that a group like this exists to support the rights of non-believers, but personally I am not a joiner and I certainly don't need to participate in joke "rituals" for the sake of symbolism. Seems a waste of time to me, personally. I only speak for myself, not anyone else. If it makes a few people feel better and pisses off the holier-than-thou crowd then I say knock yourselves out.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  evilone @8    last year

It is all a bit silly, but as I always say atheism is simply a reaction to overt theism.  If theists would just keep their internal beliefs and policies to themselves they’d never even hear from atheists, or satanists for that matter.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.1  evilone  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1    last year
It is all a bit silly, but as I always say atheism is simply a reaction to overt theism.

Yes.

If theists would just keep their internal beliefs and policies to themselves they’d never even hear from atheists, or satanists for that matter.

Well in the defense of theists they are commanded by their God to spread the gospel. I'm not happy with those people, but I understand. It's the idiots trying to infect the government with their lunacy that totally piss me off. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.1.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  evilone @8.1.1    last year

they are commanded by their God to spread the gospel

It would be much more accurate to say that they are told they are commanded by their God, since their God is eternally mute.  They may want you to believe that their God can talk to them, but if it can’t say the same thing to more than one person at the same time then it’s just their mind doing the talking.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.3  evilone  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.2    last year
It would be much more accurate to say that they are told they are commanded by their God...  

Umm... sure. I don't really feel the need to get into the idiocy at the moment. They push their shit around enough the rest of us shouldn't really need to find excuses to do it for them.

No real reason or point here except I find it interesting - Every day when I come to work there are a few people across the street at the bus stop except on the days that the two Jehovah Witness women are there with their big wire case of pamphlets. People really go out of their way to avoid them.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9  Trout Giggles    last year
But Christian protesters from many denominations have gathered outside the hotel, carrying signs warning of damnation.

"Repent and believe the Gospel," urges one. "Satan rules over all the children of pride," says another - the letters of "pride" shaded in the rainbow colours of the LGBTQ Pride flag.

"We are hoping to show God that we do not accept this blasphemy, and that we Catholics have not abandoned the public square to Satanists," says protester Michael Shivler, from a conservative Catholic group.

I wonder how the local Pentecostal church would react if I walked around the parking lot with a big sign that says "Satan loves you!"

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @9    last year

Or a sign saying that God loves LGBTQ people - carried round and round the parking lot.  Maybe during a funeral.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.1    last year

I like that idea

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
9.2  Ender  replied to  Trout Giggles @9    last year

Then they would be persecuted like no one else on the planet...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @9.2    last year

Could you imagine the uproar in Jacksonville, Arkansas? Home to the Herc C-130's and God is the way, the light, and the truth God Bless America, dammit!

I would make the local news as some nut case who has a problem with Christians

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
9.3  Thomas  replied to  Trout Giggles @9    last year
I wonder how the local Pentecostal church would react if I walked around the parking lot with a big sign that says "Satan loves you!"

Probably would start throwing their snakes at you.... 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Thomas @9.3    last year

That would get me moving

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
9.3.2  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.3.1    last year

just don't drink anything out of a cup with a skull and crossbones on it. you'll end up rolling around on the church floor blabbering gibberish...

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.3.1    last year

snakes, why did it have to be snakes?

Harrison Ford - Indiana Jones

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
9.3.4  Ender  replied to  Thomas @9.3    last year

I saw a vid of a guy that got into a street fight. He started hitting the guy with his pet snake he had with him. Whacking the other guy with his pet like some kind of whip then dropped it on the ground.

First time in my life I ever felt bad for a snake.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.4  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @9    last year

Is that before or after that chased after you with burning torches, pitchforks, and crucifixes screaming blasphemer?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.4    last year

That will probably come after...then I see them tying me to a stake and setting it on fire

 
 

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