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"He could be anywhere."

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  last year  •  203 comments

"He could be anywhere."
The suspect in the shooting that killed five people inside a Cleveland, Texas, home on Friday after neighbors asked a man to step firing off rounds in his yard "could be anywhere," according to San Jacinto County Sheriff Greg Capers.

Link to Quote: https://news.yahoo.com/texas-fugitive-accused-killing-5-000610681.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall



5aeadc20204dccee4ac21bcbb9396696


This past Friday five family members were killed execution style in their family home. Since there was a recent discussion on the integrity of news sites, right here on NT recently, let me first provide the description of the incident by the New York Times:


"Hundreds of Texas officers are  looking for the gunman  accused of killing five people after a dispute between neighbors."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/30/us/texas-shooting-manhunt-victims.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20230501&instance_id=91478&nl=the-morning&regi_id=104651630&segment_id=131799&te=1&user_id=d16359b149837b80d970aea78c8f0c4c

Here is the story without the misleading title:

"The FBI said Sunday afternoon authorities have "no leads" in the search for Francisco Oropesa, 38, a Mexican national who is accused of the quintuple murder in Cleveland, Texas, outside Houston. Oropesa was in the country illegally at the time of the shooting and had previously reentered the country illegally "multiple" times following his deportations , another ICE source told Fox News Digital."

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-fugitive-accused-killing-5-000610681.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Oh and btw, the family he killed were also here illegally. Yesterday on Meet the Press , Biden's radical Secretary of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas had trouble giving us the key details about the killer, only to say he wouldn’t "comment" on Oropesa’s immigration status. Chuck Todd, you might note was trying to help by raising the question of the killer having a "consulate card."



This is another embarrassing incident for an administration committed to allowing the entire third world enter into the United States. 

This is the price America must pay for the election of 2020.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    last year


The FBI said Sunday afternoon authorities have "no leads."

Surprise, surprise!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    last year

Many, many illegal criminals cross the southern border daily. The big surprise is why the Biden administration isn't doing something about it.

 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    last year
why the Biden administration isn't doing something about it

They did. They invited them in.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2  Hal A. Lujah    last year

Wow, stay classy Vic.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    last year

The truth bothers you Hal?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1    last year

No, it’s the subhuman mindset of immediately highlighting the immigration status of an executed nine year old that bothers every human with a conscience.  If you’re the governor of Texas, repulsive comments like that will get you re-elected.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.1    last year

Exactly, the only information that we need reported as soon as it’s available is if the shooter has any links white supremacy or MAGA.  If not, there isn’t much to say about the shooter.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.2    last year

That would make the Times front page.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.4  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.2    last year

You might be taken more seriously if the first word of your every post was not “Exactly”.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.4    last year

Do you prefer, Absolutely or Completely agree, or You nailed it?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.1    last year

It is safe to say that "MAGA" is more interested in the victim's immigration status than they are in trying to prevent these shootings from happening. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    last year

MAGA has become the buzz word for the Biden campaign.  

Clearly John if we didn't let people walk in that incident would not have happened.

Why do you want to allow everyone in?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
2.1.8  George  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    last year

If the piece of human excrement wasn’t here it wouldn’t have happened. It was illegal for him to possess the firearm in the first place, and murdering people is also illegal, someone would have to be a fucking moron to think more laws would have prevented this. But I’m sure some idiot will try to blame the gun.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  George @2.1.8    last year
But I’m sure some idiot will try to blame the gun.

You bet!

And whatever you do don't call them illegal migrants!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.4    last year

Exactly, the truth continues to appear to be problematic for you.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.11  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.5    last year

I prefer honest discourse, but by all means please continue with the overt sarcasm.  It does make you easier to ignore.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1.12  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    last year

Only leftist loons care more about the gun used; than the illegal immigrant criminal that was deported several times. Yet somehow managed to enter the US yet again; acquire a firearm (maybe transported it across the border when he entered illegally even); and then committed five murders (of immigrants that were here illegally as well).

Name one damn gun law that would have prevented this? Because like our borders and immigration laws that are not enforced! 

Leftists love their criminals; and then act shocked when those criminals do criminal things. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.13  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.6    last year

Nope, why is the left trying to ignore problems caused by Biden’s flaccid border policy?

Blaming illegally obtained guns for this problem is just one more case of putting  the cart ahead of the horse.

Some dimbulbs on the left are getting really good at that.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.12    last year

The guy didnt shoot them because he is an illegal immigrant, and they werent shot because they are illegal immigrants.  There is no place in this story to insert that information, by the Governor of the state no less, unless the intention is to denigrate illegal immigrants more than showing concern for the victims. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.14    last year
The guy didnt shoot them because he is an illegal immigrant, and they werent shot because they are illegal immigrants. 

That's woke bull shit John. The killer was a Mexican national from a DIFFERENT CULTURE. Clearly he had no respect for human life or law and order. The victims were not merely neighbors. They too were here illegally and most likely were viewed as EASY PREY.  Furthermore, the public deserves to know all the details, you know John, THE TRUTH!

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
2.1.16  George  replied to  Ronin2 @2.1.12    last year
(maybe transported it across the border when he entered illegally even)

Maybe he bought it from Holder? 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.17  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    last year
The killer was a Mexican national from a DIFFERENT CULTURE. Clearly he had no respect for human life or law and order.

Most killers do not have respect for law and order, irrespective of what culture they are from. If they did have respect for law and order, I doubt that they would be killers. You seem to be saying since he is from another culture he is, by definition, tainted and that somehow, by being a member of this other culture (no definition of what the other culture actually is) the person (and by inference the culture) is somehow inferior to whatever the culture is that you personally espouse. Your comment is known as bigotry. That is the truth. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.1.18  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.9    last year
And whatever you do don't call them illegal migrants!

OK. I call them illegal aliens, because that's the US Federal Code.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.19  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.17    last year
(no definition of what the other culture actually is)

Mexico is a failed state and a very racist state.

The cartells are more powerful than the government and the government has little interest in the wellbeing of it's people.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.20  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.17    last year
Your comment is known as bigotry.

No, your coments are racist. That is the truth. 

That goes for the commentary of [ deleted ] feminist as well.

White guilt is the leading cause of racism in America. You heard it here first.  jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.21  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.18    last year

It's all about controlling the language.  George Orwell was so right.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.22  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.1.18    last year
I call them illegal aliens, because that's the US Federal Code.

I have been wondering when the 'woke' folks will get around to correcting THAT 'mistake' in the holy name of equity!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    last year
That's woke bull shit John. The killer was a Mexican national from a DIFFERENT CULTURE. Clearly he had no respect for human life or law and order. The victims were not merely neighbors. They too were here illegally and most likely were viewed as EASY PREY.  Furthermore, the public deserves to know all the details, you know John, THE TRUTH!

What a pile of unmitigated garbage. 

What you are saying is EXACTLY like Trump saying "they are sending us their rapists" etc. Mexico does have a high murder rate, on a par with Baltimore , Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, and Kansas City. Would you tell the people in New Orleans that they have no respect for human life?  Probably not to their face anyway. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.24  JohnRussell  replied to  Thomas @2.1.17    last year

you are correct

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.25  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    last year

From the NY Times article:

CLEVELAND, Texas — The search for a man accused of killing five people continued for a third day on Monday as officers from several Texas law enforcement agencies fanned out and chased down leads.

The suspect, Francisco Oropesa had been shooting his gun in his yard in Cleveland, Texas, on Friday evening when his neighbor Wilson Garcia approached him and asked him to stop so that his baby could sleep.

Instead, the authorities said, Mr. Oropesa, 38, retrieved an AR-15 rifle from his house and walked over to Mr. Garcia’s home, where he killed his 8-year-old son, wife and three other people.

“I have no words to describe what happened,” Mr. Garcia said in Spanish at a vigil on Sunday evening, where dozens of people surrounded him and the other survivors of the shooting, joining them in prayer. “We are alive but there is no life,” he said. “I was able to escape by a miracle.”

During the vigil, Mr. Garcia wept so loudly that his sobs were audible over a choir singing “Amazing Grace.”
I see nothing in the article that is not factual. Your whole premise of the article is that the news source that you don't like mislead readers and that the news source that you do like didn't. Wrong yet again, Vic. Specifically regarding the sentence that you quoted as misleading. 
Hundreds of Texas officers are    looking for the gunman   accused of killing five people after a dispute between neighbors.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.1.27  charger 383  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.22    last year

I call then feral cats

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.29  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.21    last year

Yep, way ahead of his time.    

I’m waiting for them to decide that soon it is year zero and Uncle Joe must be believed.

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.30  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.20    last year
No, your coments are racist. That is the truth.

If that comment weren't so pathetic, it would be funny.

Only in an Orwellian world resplendent with doublespeak does promoting equal treatment under the law equal racism. Oh, yeah. Trump's version of America has Doublespeak in spades.

I am sorry that I got here after part of your comment was deleted because I am sure that I would have been equally as able to show how you are, yet again, wrong. 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.32  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.19    last year

Mexico is a failed state and a very racist state.

The cartells are more powerful than the government and the government has little interest in the wellbeing of it's people.

First, the culture is not made up of the government and the cartels. The Mexican government has been hijacked and is complicit on certain levels by the cartels. 

Second, sounds like those people need a place to go. I bet they would make fine additions to the American culture. We should invite them for dinner.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.33  Tessylo  replied to  Thomas @2.1.32    last year

Yeah, when the cartels are more powerful than the government and then wonder why people are fleeing to the US . . . jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.34  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @2.1.32    last year

How many have you invited?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.35  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Thomas @2.1.17    last year
Your comment is known as bigotry.

What are NT comments called when the speculate that support for Trump as the motivation of a mass shooting?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.36  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.35    last year

gun love is the major motivation for mass shooting.

am i being bigoted against guns?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.37  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.36    last year
gun love is the major motivation for mass shooting.

Possibly the most obtuse comment I’ve ever read on NTers.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.38  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.36    last year
gun love is the major motivation for mass shooting.

I’ve never read that, what was your source?

Aren’t many committed by recent gun owners?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.39  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.35    last year
What are NT comments called when the speculate that support for Trump as the motivation of a mass shooting?

For a few select members, they are considered "facts".

No intellect required, just the mention of Trump in a negative light makes it so!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.40  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.37    last year
Possibly the most obtuse comment I’ve ever read on NTers.

It definitely qualifies!

krst9.jpg

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.1.41  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.37    last year

I understand what JR was saying but I don’t think he has any evidence to back up his assertion.

While mass shootings are all different, especially this one in Texas, I think that many/most have one motive in common.

The shooter has a grievance, either real or imagined, from his workplace, failed relationship, paranoid or delusional to explain their failure in life.  The shooter gets and begins to fantasize about acting on his grievance through violence.  

They start planing their act and research how others have attacked.

At some point they will then begin actual preparations; pick a target(s); get ammo and equipment, practice shooting their newly acquired firearms, body armor, etc.

Not all go through with it, but most that do include suicide by cop as part of their fantasy.

This shooting seems very atypical.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
2.1.42  Nerm_L  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.1    last year
No, it’s the subhuman mindset of immediately highlighting the immigration status of an executed nine year old that bothers every human with a conscience.  If you’re the governor of Texas, repulsive comments like that will get you re-elected.

Why didn't 'da gubment' do something about the prior complaints?  Maybe immigration status had a little more to do with it than 'woke' outrage suggests.  Maybe the victims should have sought asylum in NYC; the safest city on the planet.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.43  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  charger 383 @2.1.27    last year

Sounds like a comment of no value to me.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.44  bugsy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.5    last year
or You nailed it

I think since we conservatives do this with every post, it would be the best to start every sentence like this.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.45  bugsy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.34    last year
How many have you invited?

I have asked many of these leftists the same exact question. If they are so comfortable with an unlimited number coming here, how many are they willing to take into their home rent free.

For some reason, I have never received a reply about this s/

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.46  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @2.1.45    last year
I have asked many of these leftists the same exact question. If they are so comfortable with an unlimited number coming here, how many are they willing to take into their home rent free.

That sounds like the argument the pro-abortion folks always make---"How many kids are you willing to adopt?"

LMAO!

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.1.47  charger 383  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.46    last year

Both  questions are very valid and rarely answered

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.1.48  Tacos!  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    last year
The killer was a Mexican national from a DIFFERENT CULTURE. Clearly he had no respect for human life or law and order.

This looks like you are saying the Mexican culture has no respect for human life or law and order. Is that what you think?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.49  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tacos! @2.1.48    last year

Like the US State Department that issues travel warnings to American citizens visiting Mexico, I'm saying that it has become a lawless place.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.50  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.30    last year
does promoting equal treatment under the law

When have you ever done that?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.51  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.32    last year
I bet they would make fine additions to the American culture. We should invite them for dinner.

I guess you and Joe have to learn that it doesn't work that way. Like every nation we have our own immigration laws and we determine how many immigrant we want to allow in and when. If you were so concerned about these people you'd be angry at what has been happening to many of them, especially the children.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.52  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.25    last year
I see nothing in the article that is not factual

You do know what misleading means, right?

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.53  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.51    last year
If you were so concerned about these people you'd be angry at what has been happening to many of them, especially the children.

Do you mean like when 5 people get murdered by their drunken neighbor? 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.54  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.52    last year
You do know what misleading means, right?

How, exactly is this a misleading sentence?

Hundreds of Texas officers are  looking for the gunman   accused of killing five people after a dispute between neighbors.

Your whole intent and purpose for writing this article was to pillory the Times story.  It is not my fault that instead you just come off looking like you totally agree with racial and ethnic stereotypes because the only thing that apparently was important out of a story about five people being murdered was the fact that the murderer was illegally in the country. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.55  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.41    last year
This shooting seems very atypical.

Not sure about that.    

This guy was allegedly drunk/high, got pissed off because they simply asked him to stop shooting and then became disconnected enough to murder multiple innocents in cold blood.

Happens every day in big cities with gang violence.

This is about people, that for whatever reason, are capable of breaking one our most cherished norms.    To not kill.

To call that gun love is just ridiculous.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.56  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.54    last year
the fact that the murderer was illegally in the country. 

He was illegally in the country 6 fucking times. That tells us that people with your mindset are in power and the border is open.

This should never have happened.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.57  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @2.1.53    last year

I mean the evil ideology that fostered all of this

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.58  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.56    last year
He was illegally in the country 6 fucking times. That tells us that people with your mindset are in power and the border is open.

Really? Only to you. I don't think so. What that tells us is that the border is crossed at will by people who have a desire to do so. The border has never been and never will be impenetrable. Never. 

Answer me this:  Did people illegally come across the border when any of the prior presidents were in power? Why do you think that was?  Why should it suddenly not happen when this presidential administration took over? What makes you think that all of the times that the murderer was in the country were under this administration? Ohhhh, because it wasn't

SAN JACINTO, Texas (KTRK) -- The man accused of shooting and killing five of his neighbors, including a 3rd grader, last week in San Jacinto County after he was asked to stop shooting his gun is still on the loose. We are learning more about Francisco Oropesa's background.

Oropesa is a Mexican national and has been deported from the United States four times. The last time was in 2016, and his current immigration status is still unclear.

The 38-year-old was convicted of driving while intoxicated back in 2012 in Montgomery County and was sentenced to serve time in jail, records show.

Tuesday marks day four of an ongoing search for the suspected mass shooter.

People need to look at the reality of the situation and not at some fictional fantasy that you are pushing where the borders are "secure" and they don't have to deal with "others". You dehumanize and demonize people for trying to come to this country. Yes, we have an immigration system that is quite broken, not because it restricts the people coming into this country but because we have not given it the resources to operate properly. The vast majority of people who come here do so not with the intent of doing harm but with the intent of contributing to and improving their own lives and, by extension, society as well. 

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
2.1.59  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.57    last year
I mean the evil ideology that fostered all of this

Vic's brand of Trumpism?? Hahahahahahahaha, now that is funny. 

But seriously, all administrations have to deal with this, and Bidens actual enforcement of the "Border" looks basically the same as the enforcement that Trump had. Biden is just not a lying asshole the way Trump was, so there are more people who are willing to try to get across. Most of them are just trying to better themselves. The evil ideology is the one that teaches us to hate them all. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.60  Sparty On  replied to  Thomas @2.1.59    last year

Lol .... now that is funny ..... funny as hell .....

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
2.1.61  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.36    last year
gun love is the major motivation for mass shooting.

I would love to see the study that lead you to that conclusion.  Please supply a link

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
2.1.62  Right Down the Center  replied to  Thomas @2.1.59    last year
Bidens actual enforcement of the "Border" looks basically the same as the enforcement that Trump had

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.63  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.61    last year
I would love to see the study that lead you to that conclusion.  Please supply a link

The DNC didn't release a link to any facts.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.64  Texan1211  replied to  Thomas @2.1.59    last year
Bidens actual enforcement of the "Border" looks basically the same as the enforcement that Trump had

Maybe it looks like the same to people who never looked at the results of said actions.

Or maybe you are one of those who the WH claim that illegal immigration has dropped by 90% was designed for, knowing that the results would remain unseen and not even looked FOR?

Don't be so gullible!

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
2.1.65  Snuffy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.64    last year

Well if the White House stated it then it must be true.....              /s

However, as they do like to redefine words and actions, all they need to do is define catch and release as a legal immigrant and voila, numbers drop.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.66  Texan1211  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.65    last year
Well if the White House stated it then it must be true.....              /s

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

However, as they do like to redefine words and actions, all they need to do is define catch and release as a legal immigrant and voila, numbers drop.

For this Admin., that seems entirely plausible and even likely.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    last year

I learned from about 8 others here. I guess "Fuck Off" is what made them "classy."

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2    last year

Yep. As someone who is of Mexican American heritage and lives 6 blocks from the AZ/Mexico border, I have little problem spotting those that live absolutely nowhere near the border but seem to think they know all about what happens here and why. To those that do, I challenge them to come visit the small towns on the borders of AZ, TX, and NM and get their eyes opened to the reality of what US citizens and legal residents here are faced with on a daily basis. I know that will not happen because most open border and pro illegal advocates  refuse to see or admit the crisis that is currently plaguing our borders because the majority of the leftist liberal dominated MSM and Mayorkas has convinced them our borders are secure and there in no problem. As the old saying goes, "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
2.2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @2.2.1    last year
I have little problem spotting those that live absolutely nowhere near the border but seem to think they know all about what happens here and why. To those that do, I challenge them to come visit the small towns on the borders of AZ, TX, and NM and get their eyes opened to the reality of what US citizens and legal residents here are faced with on a daily basis. I know that will not happen because most open border and pro illegal advocates  refuse to see or admit the crisis that is currently plaguing our borders because the majority of the leftist liberal dominated MSM and Mayorkas has convinced them our borders are secure and there in no problem.

They welcome the migrants as long as those migrants don't show up in their backyard. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.2    last year

Yep. It is much easier to look the other way except when it suits their purposes and agenda.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.2.4  Jasper2529  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.2    last year
They welcome the migrants as long as those migrants don't show up in their backyard. 

Then they should remove their status of "sanctuary" state/city, because they can't have it both ways. Remember what elite, left-wing Martha's Vineyard did to illegal aliens because they didn't meet their socio-economic-racial standards? They suddenly realized that "sanctuary" meant that they'd have to pay for illegal aliens' food, housing, healthcare, and education.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @2.2.4    last year
They suddenly realized that "sanctuary" meant that they'd have to pay for illegal aliens' food, housing, healthcare, and education.

And even worse for residents of Martha's Vineyard---LIVE amongst them!  Oh, no!!!

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
2.2.6  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.5    last year
And even worse for residents of Martha's Vineyard---LIVE amongst them!  Oh, no!!!

Well, elitist snobs like the Obamas, Kennedys, Mike Wallace, Bill Gates, Oprah, Bill/Hillary,  Larry David, Diane Sawyer, and David Letterman could employ them as servants and garbage crews at their vacation homes, summer rentals, and parties.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3  Jeremy Retired in NC    last year
Oropesa was in the country illegally at the time of the shooting and had previously reentered the country illegally "multiple" times following his deportations 

Courtesy of the Biden Administration open border policies.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3    last year

Mayorkas is doing the best he can!

FvCmMTnWIAcTU6N?format=jpg&name=900x900

How would you like to have to find out who they are?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    last year

People are finding homes & shelter down there every day!

FvCHaYRWwAE-v2v?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.1    last year

Lightfoot sends letter to Abbott urging him not to send any more migrants, saying the city has “no more shelters, spaces, or resources”

FvAlJ58XsAEa8JJ?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    last year

It is always amusing to see Democrats get upset over their own policies backfiring on them.

What a moron!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.3    last year

As long as it's happening down on the border they don't have to talk about it. They wouldn't want it to be a campaign issue

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.4    last year
As long as it's happening down on the border they don't have to talk about it.

The Biden Administration has largely ignored the border.

And will continue to do so IF voters allow them to push their stupid, disastrous policies.

Look at how Democratic mayors and governors cry about illegal aliens coming to THEIR territory. Maybe they should revise their own counter-American policies.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.5    last year
The Biden Administration has largely ignored the border.

As has most of the MSM. It has worked thus far. The border still ranks very low as a campaign issue.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.1.7  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    last year
Lightfoot sends letter to Abbott urging him not to send any more migrants, saying the city has “no more shelters, spaces, or resources”

Now that their sanctuary states and cities are also overwhelmed, dimwit Democrat governors and mayors are whining about the consequences of their own decisions. Suck it up, buttercups!

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
3.1.8  charger 383  replied to  Jasper2529 @3.1.7    last year

Keep sending them there.  They want them many other places do not want them

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jasper2529 @3.1.7    last year

Didn't Chicago once support a great migration which transformed the city?

Now lightfoot says they are full. What could the border states be like? They must be overflowing.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.1.10  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.9    last year
Didn't Chicago once support a great migration which transformed the city?

You're correct and it wasn't that long ago. It appears that today's black mayors of sanctuary cities who are crying, "Racism!"... don't like today's black, brown, Asian, and white illegal aliens. 

The Great Migration (1910-1970)

Great Migration

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.11  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.9    last year

From my perspective, living where I do, illegals coming through my neck of the AZ desert that get caught do not stay in the border areas. The generally head to all points West, North, or East to the major metropolitan areas where they can disappear into the woodwork and blend in. No jobs for them in the rural areas.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.1.12  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    last year

Lots of family units, women, children, and babies in that photo!  /S

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.1.13  Jasper2529  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.11    last year
From my perspective, living where I do, illegals coming through my neck of the AZ desert that get caught do not stay in the border areas. The generally head to all points West, North, or East to the major metropolitan areas where they can disappear into the woodwork and blend in. No jobs for them in the rural areas.

It's not just your own perspective, even though you do see it first-hand. Those of us who read and watch factual news sources know all states, cities, and towns have been affected by Biden's open borders policies. My town now has over 1,000 illegals that we have to house, clothe, feed, and educate in addition to paying for their healthcare ... and it's a big burden for us.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4  author  Vic Eldred    last year

FBI says they have "zero leads" in hunt for Texas gunman who fatally shot neighbors

FvC0NtRXoAIBmp7?format=jpg&name=small




He could be anywhere in Biden's America.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
4.1  Jasper2529  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    last year

Or, since the border is wide open, he escaped back to Mexico for a while. Then, when things die down, he can illegally enter the US again. He's already done it 4 to 5 times since 2009, so he's a pro! 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
5  Nerm_L    last year

Yeah, Oropesa could be anywhere.  But he's not just anywhere.  He's in the United States and that makes Oropesa our problem.  Mexico doesn't have to worry about Oropesa; he's not their problem.  The open border has taken the burden off of Mexico.  Now Mexico only has to send thoughts and prayers instead of dealing with Oropesa.

No doubt, the liberal contingent will be blaming scary black guns.  But that doesn't address the problem of Oropesa.  And Oropesa ain't just anywhere, he's in the United States.  Oropesa could have been somewhere else but our President invited him to be here.  Biden dumped the problem of Oropesa onto everyone in the United States just so Biden could win an election.  And Biden's response to the problem of Oropesa is little different than Mexico's response; thoughts and prayers.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @5    last year
He's in the United States

Remember when the US was the safest place in the world?

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    last year
Remember when the US was the safest place in the world?

Nope! But then some Americans think they are the only place in the world.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.1    last year
Nope!

Of course YOU don't. You are Canadian.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.3  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.2    last year

If your neighbor carries a big stick, know your neighbor.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.4  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @5.1.1    last year
But then some Americans think they are the only place in the world.

I know none that think that but I know a few Canadians who think they are all that and a bag of chips ....

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @5.1.1    last year
But then some Americans think they are the only place in the world.

Some folks know the world would be a far different place without America in it.

Some even are appreciative of things America has done for the world.

While others are ungrateful whelps.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
5.1.6  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    last year
Remember when the US was the safest place in the world?

Where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

But, then, I remember when the United States was a land of opportunity, too.  People were motivated to work hard (which ain't the same as hard work) and play by the rules because that provided opportunity.  Now we live on credit cards and government bailouts.  And working hard risks a layoff.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.3    last year

Especially when US commerce is so important to Canada.

Btw that big stick protects Canada as well as the US.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @5.1.6    last year

A time gone by.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @5.1.6    last year

Where good credit now gets punished and bad credit gets rewarded.

You can’t make shit like this up.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.9    last year
You can’t make shit like this up.

And THAT is what is so sad.

What WON'T Democrats do in the name of almighty "equity" even if it means screwing others?

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.11  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.7    last year
Especially when US commerce is so important to Canada.

At $664.8 Billion so is Canadian commerce to the US.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.11    last year

I only wish we could keep the crude petroleum coming.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.13  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.12    last year
I only wish we could keep the crude petroleum coming.

Other than the Covid years more and more has been going ... you guys are insatiable.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.13    last year

The one guy who counts says no more...oil bad!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
5.1.15  Nerm_L  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.9    last year
Where good credit now gets punished and bad credit gets rewarded. You can’t make shit like this up.

Yup.  We've replaced opportunity with opportunists.  Squatter's rights and financial finagling will make us all rich.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.16  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.14    last year

Ah, oil bad ... that must be why he approved the Willow Project in Alaska.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.17  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.16    last year

His first act was to kill that pipeline from Canada.

You missed that, huh?

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.18  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.17    last year

Considering that Canada's oil is the dirtiest in the world, I approved.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.19  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.18    last year
Considering that Canada's oil is the dirtiest in the world

Ahh but Mr Biden prefers the dirty oil to the much cleaner domestic oil. You see, America is going to fix the world's climate problem all by itself/ S

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.20  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.19    last year

Make up your mind, you're confusing yourself.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
5.1.21  evilone  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.19    last year
Ahh but Mr Biden prefers the dirty oil to the much cleaner domestic oil.

One more fucking time... We export our oil because we can't refine it for domestic use. We import the kind we need to use from OPEC. So unless you want the fucking federal government to seize all forms of energy production, raise taxes and confiscate land for new refineries, this is how it is. Biden has no more input in oil production than any other fucking president since Washingtion. The only one that got it right was Carter and Reagan used it against him to win the election. 

...the U.S. does produce enough oil to meet its own needs, but it is the wrong type of oil.

Crude is graded according to two main metrics, weight and sweetness. The weight of oil defines how easy it is to refine, or break down into its usable component parts, such as gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. Light crude is the easiest to handle, heavy is the most difficult, with intermediate obviously somewhere in between. The sweetness refers to the sulfur content of unrefined oil. The sweeter it is, the less sulfur it contains.

Most of the oil produced in the U.S. fields in Texas, Oklahoma, and elsewhere is light and sweet, compared to what comes from the Middle East and Russia. The problem is that for many years, imported oil met most of the U.S.’s energy needs, so a large percentage of the refining capacity here is geared towards dealing with oil that is heavier and less sweet than the kind produced here.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.22  pat wilson  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.4    last year
all that and a bag of chips ....

The 90's called, they want their cliche back.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.23  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilone @5.1.21    last year
One more fucking time..

One more fucking time...Progressive gaslighting won't work and never has.

Actions speak louder than words, and Biden’s agenda of ending the fossil fuel era is considered hostile by most U.S. oil and gas producers, who also saw Biden’s request of members of the OPEC cartel as a slap in the face. Much bad blood and distrust exist between America’s traditional energy producers and the progressive wing of Biden’s coalition – a suspicion that won’t disappear overnight. 

The  White House  has limited ability to influence the near-term domestic oil and gas production. We do not have national oil companies like Saudi Arabia, Russia, or Venezuela, so Biden must rely on the private sector, which itself is accountable to its shareholders. Those shareholders have grown weary of high investment and low dividends after the rapid growth of the shale sector in the last decade. They now insist on fiscal discipline, limiting how much capital CEOs can invest in new exploration.   

A timeline of President Biden’s energy policy actions over the past two years illustrates how far he must now go to reverse the bad blood – and the incentive structure – his administration has built up with the industry. Here’s a recap of Biden’s anti-oil policies since taking office on January 20, 2021.

*January 20, 2021:  One of Biden’s first actions was to revoke approval for the Keystone XL pipeline and impose a moratorium on oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters. Roughly 25% of U.S. production comes from federal areas. The Keystone XL cancellation confirmed to many policy-watchers Biden’s willingness to use one of climate activists’ favorite tactics – blocking "midstream" pipelines – to restrict "upstream" production. The moves were part of Biden’s broader climate agenda and target to reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by 50% by 2030 and achieve net-zero emissions by 2050.

* February 26, 2021:  Biden updates the "social cost of greenhouse gas emissions," dramatically altering the way the U.S. government calculates the real-world costs of  climate change . The move could reshape a range of consequences, from whether to allow new fossil fuel leasing on federal lands and waters to what sort of steel is used in taxpayer-funded infrastructure projects. The administration plans to boost the figure it will use to assess greenhouse gas pollution's damage inflicts on society to $51 per ton of carbon dioxide – a rate more than seven times higher than that used by former president Donald Trump. But experts say it could reach as high as $125 per ton once the administration conducts a more thorough analysis. This would apply to any new oil and gas lease sale, raising producers’ costs to deliver new supplies.

* June 1, 2021:   Biden proposed eliminating a slew of tax benefits for oil, gas and coal producers in favor of electric vehicles and other low-carbon energy alternatives as part of his $6 trillion budget for the next fiscal year. It proposed repealing: the pass-through exemption from corporate income tax for partnerships that derive at least 90% of gross income from natural resources; use of percentage depletion for oil and gas wells; expensing of intangible drilling costs; capital gains treatment for royalties; enhanced oil recovery credit; $3.90 per barrel credit for marginal oil wells; expensing of exploration and development costs, and other tax incentives. Eliminating these tax provisions imperils U.S. energy security by raising costs for domestic producers and would increase America’s reliance on foreign energy supplies.

* August 11, 2021:  Biden calls on OPEC+ producers to increase supply to help curb rising oil prices, even though the U.S. is one of the three largest producers in the world and can deliver supply with a lower carbon footprint than most unregulated national oil companies in the cartel. He would do this several times in the months that followed, including after Russia’s February 24, 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

* October 29, 2021:  Biden and  Democrats  propose a "methane fee" in the proposed budget bill. The fee would start at $900 per ton in 2023 and increase to $1,500 in 2025. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, and industry has been working to reduce fugitive emissions of it on its own. The industry has also embraced executive regulatory efforts to reduce methane emissions, including support for the Global Methane Pledge, which requires a 30 percent cut in methane emissions by 2030, one of the Biden administration’s priorities for the COP26 climate summit in Glasgow. But the fee structure would effectively serve as a tax on natural gas production, which is counterproductive to energy security and economic growth in the U.S.

* November 17, 2021:  Biden sent a letter to Federal Trade Commission Chair Lina Khan encouraging an investigation into oil and gas companies and retail gasoline prices. The move infuriated oil executives, who Biden portrayed as scapegoats for rising inflationary pressures on Americans. In four months, it marked the second time that the White House requested a probe into retail fuel prices, even though gasoline prices are set in a global commodity marketplace and were only following market trends in crude and refined product prices. The surge in crude oil and gasoline prices reflects tightness in supply amid a rapid demand recovery from the Covid-19 pandemic.

* March 12, 2022:  Congressional Democrats propose to tax top U.S. oil producers and importers and direct the collected money to Americans, an effort they said will curb profiteering in an era of high gasoline prices. The "windfall profit" legislation would put a 50% tax, charged for a barrel, on the price difference between the current cost of a barrel of oil and the average cost for a barrel between 2015 and 2019. Lawmakers contend it would raise an estimated $45 billion a year at $120 a barrel of oil. The measure proposed by Biden’s Democratic party completely ignores the reality that oil prices are set in a global commodity marketplace, not by individual companies.

* March 21, 2022:  Biden’s Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) proposes landmark climate rules. If finalized, the rules would fundamentally overhaul how publicly listed companies divulge detailed information about their climate risks and mitigation strategies. Large companies that do business in the U.S. would be required within three years to lay bare their contributions and vulnerabilities to climate change – including, in some cases, the greenhouse gas emissions associated with their customers and suppliers. The move is designed to divert investment away from fossil fuel producers, even though investors are already planning for the energy transition using their own environmental, social and governance (ESG) standards.




Having fun yet?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.22    last year

Tell the 90’s to take a chill pill .....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.25  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.23    last year

Doh!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.26  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.25    last year

You actually have to pull their hands away from their eyes and force them to read what we all know!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.27  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.26    last year

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.28  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @5.1.27    last year

I haven't heard that one in a while. It's still true.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
5.1.29  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.28    last year
I haven't heard that one in a while. It's still true.

Many thanks to Dorothy Parker for upgrading the quote: "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think".

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.1.30  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.28    last year

Yep, as proven out here multiple times a day.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6  Sean Treacy    last year

Anywhere in Mexico, probably. 

Its not like crossing the border is an issue.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
6.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    last year

I sure that Mexico will catch him and support extradition back to the US.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
6.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    last year

Probably a good bet he has cartel connections down there that will take good care of him.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
6.2.1  Gsquared  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @6.2    last year

He was captured several hours ago in Texas, not far from the location of the murders.

Good thing he's stupid.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7  Sparty On    last year

Biden has blood on his hands.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @7    last year

It doesn't seem to bother him.

Fu6Kxd7aYAAhZmL?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1    last year
It doesn't seem to bother him.

Is that drive-by grifting?  Did they at least clean the windshield to get a dollar?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.1    last year

That may have been Susan Rice saying good-bye.

Why did she leave?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
7.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    last year
That may have been Susan Rice saying good-bye.  Why did she leave?

In that case, the picture answers the question.  Or was that just rhetorical?

That would be a heck of a campaign slogan -- Joe Biden the rhetorical President.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9  afrayedknot    last year

As we conflate the circumstances to fit an agenda; i.e. immigration, the economy, hatred of  the opposition, etc., ad naseum…we ignore that yet another family has been shattered, will be burying an eight-year-old…and the weapon that has no civilian purpose is used to once again slaughter innocent civilians. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  afrayedknot @9    last year
and the weapon that has no civilian purpose is used to once again slaughter innocent civilians.

How cute.  You think the AR-15 has a military purpose.  The AR-15 has been a civilian firearm since its inception.  There isn't a single military the world over that uses it.  Not to mention you are throwing a fit over an inanimate object instead of the real problem - the mentally deficient person who not only was in the country illegally, but more than likely obtained that civilian firearm illegally.  

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.1.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1    last year

“How cute.”

How obtuse. How stale. How in the world?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  afrayedknot @9.1.1    last year

Much like you glossing over somebody here illegally with a weapon obtained illegally.  But then again, discussing the real problem in this situation is just out of your grasp.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1    last year

Are AR-15’s weapons of war? Here’s what a former Fort Benning commander had to say

By Mona Moore

A former Fort Benning commander took a stand in the country’s ongoing debate on gun control with a thread of tweets posted Thursday evening.

“Let me state unequivocally — For all intents and purposes, the AR-15 and rifles like it are weapons of war,” retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton wrote on Twitter.

As the former Commanding General of the Infantry Center at Fort Benning and Chief of Infantry, I know a bit about weapons. Let me state unequivocally — For all intents and purposes, the AR-15 and rifles like it are weapons of war. A thread:

The retired major general went on to write the AR-15 was the civilian version of the M16, a close relation to the M4 rifles currently used by the military.

“It is a very deadly weapon with the same basic functionality that our troops use to kill the enemy,” Eaton wrote.

Eaton broke down the differences between the M16, M4 and AR-15 in the thread of seven tweets. He said those opposed to assault weapon bans were playing with semantics, when they claimed any meaningful difference existed between military weapons and AR-15 rifles.

“...The AR-15 is ACCURATELY CALLED a ‘weapon of war.’ … Don’t take the bait when anti-gun-safety folks argue about it,” he wrote. “They know it’s true. Now you do too.”

That is why the AR-15 is ACCURATELY CALLED a ‘weapon of war.’ It is a very deadly weapon with the same basic functionality that our troops use to kill the enemy. Don’t take the bait when anti-gun-safety folks argue about it. They know it’s true. Now you do too. 7/7

The tweets came on the heels of one of the country’s deadliest weeks in recent history. In the days since the Uvalde, Texas shooting, 20 mass shootings have claimed the lives of 17 people and injured 88 others, according to   Gun Violence Archive . The researchers defined a mass shooting as any shooting with four or more victims shot, either injured or killed.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    last year

If you dont mind Jeremy, I'll take his word over yours. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    last year
“Let me state unequivocally — For all intents and purposes, the AR-15 and rifles like it are weapons of war,” retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton wrote on Twitter.

And yet not a single military in the world uses it.  Your General is ill informed [Deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    last year
Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton

Paul D. Eaton  (born 1950) is a former  United States Army  officer who commanded the operations to train Iraqi troops during  Operation Iraqi Freedom . Eaton served in that capacity between 2003 and 2004, and then returned to the US to become Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Training, United States Army Training and Doctrine Command,  Fort Monroe , Virginia. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    last year
Most of the time, the distinction is of little practical importance: these semiautomatic rifles are ubiquitous, widely available for sale in gun shops across much of America. But on Tuesday, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia,  came down squarely  one side of this debate, with big implications for how states regulate assault weapons. In a 10-4 decision, the federal court upheld Maryland’s 2013 assault weapons ban, finding that guns like the AR-15 are weapons of war, and thus American civilians don’t have an unfettered right to buy and own them under the Second Amendment.

The court’s decision is uniquely forceful. While every other appeals courts to consider other states’ assault weapon bans has upheld those state laws, only the Fourth Circuit has weighed in on whether there is a constitutional right to own these kinds of weapons.

“It sends a very clear message that states are free to regulate assault weapons,” said Brian Frosh, the Maryland attorney general whose office defended the law. “The 4th Circuit is the only one to address that question head-on.”

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.2    last year

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1    last year
AR-15-style semiautomatic weapons are civilian versions of military weapons. So what's the difference?

Gun control advocates say the difference is minimal, arguing the AR-15, like its military version, is designed to kill people quickly and in large numbers - hence the term assault-style rifle. They say it has no valid recreational use, and civilians should not be allowed to own them.

The gun industry, gun owners and their supporters say AR-15s are used for hunting, target practice and shooting competitions and should remain legal.

Because AR-15-style weapons are semiautomatic, the shooter must pull the trigger to fire each shot from a magazine that often holds 30 rounds.

In contrast, a shooter with a fully automatic assault rifle can pull and hold the trigger and the weapon will keep firing until the ammunition supply is exhausted.

Fully automatic weapons have been tightly restricted in the U.S. since the 1934 National Firearms Act, which was directed against machine guns at the time.

However, a bump stock — a legal device in many places — can be added to a semiautomatic weapon to approximate an automatic rifle.

The Las Vegas shooter had a bump stock, which brought the device to national attention, and has led to calls to ban it in the current gun debate.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.10  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.9    last year
AR-15-style semiautomatic weapons are civilian versions of military weapons. So what's the difference?

The difference is the AR-15 does not meet military standards as where the M4 and M16 do.  

I also notice you fail to address the real problems in this situation.  Why is that?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.1.11  Snuffy  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.5    last year
Your General is ill informed just like the rest of you.

General Paul Eaton was also critical of President George W Bush stating the President  not heed the advice given by his military commanders.  In 2008 Eaton served as an advisor to Senator  Hillary Clinton 's presidential campaign. Following Clinton's concession of the Democratic primary, Eaton has made several appearances in support of Senator  Barack Obama 's presidential campaign.  He also appeared in a political campaign ad critical of  Donald Trump , using the catchphrase "Too Dangerous for America."

It would seem that his political bias and motivation is also well known.  

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
9.1.12  George  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.4    last year

This General is a attention seeking douchebag with gems like this.

Retired general warns the U.S. military could back a coup after the 2024 election

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.1.13  Snuffy  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.10    last year
I also notice you fail to address the real problems in this situation.  Why is that?

You know the answer to that.  The real problem is much too difficult to fix so it must be ignored.  Besides, the political parties don't really want to fix that problem as they enjoy using it for their own political means.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @9.1.11    last year

From what I read, the major difference between a commercial AR-15 and the military versions is that the commercial version doesnt fire until the clip is empty, but with each pull of the trigger.  That is not enough of a distinction to declare that the AR-15 is not a "weapon of war".  Very few if any mass shooters have been prevented from killing multiple people because they had to pull the trigger for each round fired. If I remember correctly, the Sandy Hook shooter fired over 100 rounds. 

The fact is these weapons are designed to kill people. They werent originally designed for military use so the soldiers could go duck hunting in their spare time. 

I see absolutely no reason why they cant or shouldnt be described as "weapons of war" other than that the gun lovers dont like it. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.15  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Snuffy @9.1.13    last year
The real problem is much too difficult to fix so it must be ignored.

Exactly.  To address the problem would mean culpability.  They can't have that.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.16  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  George @9.1.12    last year
This General is a attention seeking douchebag with gems like this.

So he's perfect for the Democrat party.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.17  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.10    last year
I also notice you fail to address the real problems in this situation.  Why is that?

The "problem" in the comment I replied to is that you have said , probably dozens of times on this site, that the AR-15 is not considered a weapon of war. I posted what a high ranking general in the US Army said, what a federal court said, and what an Iraqi veteran said on a tv program. They all said it is a weapon of war. 

Thats the problem I was replying to. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.1.18  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.17    last year
They all said it is a weapon of war. 

Name any branch of any military in any country that uses them in war situations................

If you can't, they are full of shit.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.19  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.14    last year
From what I read, the major difference between a commercial AR-15 and the military versions is that the commercial version doesnt fire until the clip is empty, but with each pull of the trigger.

That's called Semi-Automatic.  There are many firearms that function in this fashion to include many used by the military.  

I see absolutely no reason why they cant or shouldnt be described as "weapons of war" other than that the gun lovers dont like it. 

Ignorance is usually an indication of what makes that sentence absurd.  As YOU stated:

they werent originally designed for military use

The ONLY reason you want it categorized as a "weapon of war" is flat out fear.  I guess that's what happens when you fail to address the real problems in this situation.  There is more to this whole thing than the firearm that was used.  Would you be making the same statements if the shooter used a 9mm or a shotgun?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
9.1.20  George  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.16    last year

He supported Hillary, so obviously has no judgement, or maybe just supporting a fellow white supremist out of loyalty.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
9.1.21  George  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.1.18    last year

Maybe if the guns weren't black? maybe then democrats wouldn't be afraid of them.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.1.22  Jasper2529  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.16    last year

Everybody needs to check out Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton. He's a very vocal anti-Trump/anti-Pompeo guy. It's no surprise that the left likes him!

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
9.1.23  Tacos!  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.10    last year
The difference is the AR-15 does not meet military standards as where the M4 and M16 do.

This is a terrible defense of the AR-15. Even Colt has been trying to sell the AR-15 as basically an M16 for decades:

384

384

Just admit that the AR-15 is what it is and then argue that that’s actually ok. When you try to argue that it is somehow significantly different from an M16, no one really believes that and it kills the credibility of anyone who says it is.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.24  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.17    last year
The "problem" in the comment I replied to is that you have said

I ask you why you are ignoring the real problem in this situation.  And here you are still ignoring it blathering on with nonsense about an inanimate object that scares the shit out of you.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.25  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.23    last year

I do admit that the AR did not meet standards set by the military.  I also admit that this firearm scares the shit out of liberals because it LOOKS like a weapon used by the military.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.26  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @9.1.23    last year

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.27  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.26    last year

Oh, bless your heart.  You're upset I don't have the mental dificiencies to follow your logic.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
9.1.28  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.26    last year

This seed isn’t about Jeremy.

Is it?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.29  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1    last year

But it is that black and scary looking evil rifle.

There you go throwing logic and common sense out! Some folks cannot handle that and their heads implode...

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.30  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.17    last year

The AR-15's militarized derivative the M-16/M-4 carbine was, not the AR itself.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.31  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.30    last year

I think we have seen that. So what? A high ranking general in the Army  (ret) calls it a weapon of war, as did a panel of federal judges. You guys can distract all you want. Again, so what? 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.32  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.29    last year
But it is that black and scary looking evil rifle.

And that was enough to send them over the edge with fiction and circular logic.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.33  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.31    last year

Even  leftist liberal leaning generals and federal judges can be wrong, but you cannot or will not accept that. Eaton is probably a big supporter of Biden's woke military as well. Sounds to me like the one trying to do the distracting is you John.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.34  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Jasper2529 @9.1.22    last year

I did and found that Eaton spent the majority of his service as a peacetime staff weenie and never had a front line combat command. Closest he ever came to a combat zone was to oversee training of the Iraqi Armed forces and he failed miserably at that. Just another general who got his stars from political connections and being the consummate paper pusher.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
9.1.35  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.34    last year

Ticket puncher ... I wonder how many subordinates he boned along the way.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.36  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.34    last year

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.37  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sparty On @9.1.35    last year

Yep, REMF from the word go.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.38  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.1.18    last year

Some people just cannot grasp the idea that the major difference between the AR-15 and the M-16/M-4 carbine is the rate of fire. AR-15 is semi auto only with single shot selective to 3 shot burst only. M-16/M-4 is selective fire fire between 3 shot burst to fully auto. Those differences alone make the AR-15 not a military grade weapon no matter how much the anti-gun liberal left try to obfuscate and preach otherwise.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
9.1.39  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.38    last year

Almost Doc, the AR platform is semi-auto only without modification and the M16/M4 platform is selective between semi and three round burst.    Full rock and roll left with the M16A2.

The difference in cyclic rate of fire is substantial.    From about 700 RPM for three round burst to about 45 RPM on semi.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
9.1.40  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sparty On @9.1.39    last year

My thanks for the correction.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
9.1.41  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9.1.40    last year

Not a problem brother.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.2  Jasper2529  replied to  afrayedknot @9    last year
As we conflate the circumstances to fit an agenda; i.e. immigration, the economy, hatred of  the opposition, etc., ad naseum…we ignore that yet another family has been shattered, will be burying an eight-year-old…and the weapon that has no civilian purpose is used to once again slaughter innocent civilians. 

There's a lot to unpack in that comment.

  1. Immigration? NO. ILLEGAL immigration.
  2. The weapon has no civilian purpose? Not according to Amendment 2 of the US Constitution! Also ... it's very safe to assume that the gun(s) were either stolen or illegally purchased, because the killer is an ILLEGAL ALIEN who's been deported at least 5 times.
  3. innocent civilians - I'll give you credit for the child, because most 8-year-olds aren't criminals. As for the others (13-14 at last report) who were in the house, we don't know anything about them except that all of them were/are ILLEGAL ALIENS.
 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.2.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Jasper2529 @9.2    last year

“…we don't know anything about them except that all of them were/are ILLEGAL ALIENS.”

So…license to kill? Or societal license to justify their murder in the name of just what? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @9.2    last year
Immigration? NO. ILLEGAL immigration.

Some people can't tell the difference.

Bidenistas support illegal immigration.

Did you see the memo the Biden nominee for Secretary of Labor signed instructing her agency to NOT cooperate in any way with ICE?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.2.3  Jasper2529  replied to  afrayedknot @9.2.1    last year
So…license to kill? Or societal license to justify their murder in the name of just what? 

I never said that. All I meant is that, instead of speculation, we should ALL wait until law enforcement provides us with more facts and evidence. PERIOD.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @9.2.1    last year
So…license to kill? Or societal license to justify their murder in the name of just what? 

Not even CLOSE to what he ACTUALLY wrote, but why let facts get in the way of a good rant, right?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.2.5  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2.4    last year
Not even CLOSE to what he ACTUALLY wrote, but why let facts get in the way of a good rant, right?

Thanks! 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.2.6  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2.2    last year
Some people can't tell the difference.
Bidenistas support illegal immigration.

I'm sure they know the difference, but it doesn't fit their agendas. Mayorkas, especially, has made this obvious.

Did you see the memo the Biden nominee for Secretary of Labor signed instructing her agency to NOT cooperate in any way with ICE?

No. I'll look for a link. As potential Labor Sec'y, it sounds like she doesn't even want to enforce E-Verify?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.2.8  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2.7    last year

Heh heh ... did Su really think that the Senate committee wouldn't question her about that 2017 ICE memo? Also ...

Conversely, she was opposed by business groups and congressional Republicans. Opponents criticized her leadership of California's unemployment agency during the  COVID-19 pandemic , [17]  when over a million legitimate applicants had their claims delayed or frozen, [4]  while up to $31 billion was sent to fraudulent claimants (including to criminals belonging to national and international crime rings and inmates in the state's prison system). [18] [19 ]  Opposition also centered on her enforcement of California's controversial employment law,  AB 5 . [20] [21] After Walsh's resignation announcement, members of the  Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus  called on Biden to nominate Su as Walsh's permanent successor, citing the lack of Asian-Americans in  Biden's cabinet . [26 ]  On February 28, 2023, President  Joe Biden  nominated Su to serve as the United States secretary of labor. [8]

So --- she wanted to bar law enforcement from doing their jobs ... but, she does fill another Biden "equity/inclusion" box! 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @9.2.8    last year
but, she does fill another Biden "equity/inclusion" box!

That seems to be the prime factor in his nominations.

Certainly would be silly to rely on expertise when race and gender are what really matter.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
9.2.10  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @9.2.9    last year
That seems to be the prime factor in his nominations. Certainly would be silly to rely on expertise when race and gender are what really matter.

Gender, race, and willingness to break the rule of law are all he wants.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @9.2.10    last year
Gender, race, and willingness to break the rule of law are all he wants.

For the Democratic Party, hard at work to alter public perception of them being soft and indifferent to crime, a wrong person to back!

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
10  Jasper2529    last year

An illegal alien shooting and killing other illegal aliens?

Where's the We need more gun control crowd? Everybody knows that illegal aliens always legally purchase their guns!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
10.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Jasper2529 @10    last year

Perhaps we shouldn’t allow foreign nationals to own firearms without special cause, like Chinese dissidents fearing violence from the CCP.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
10.1.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1    last year

“Perhaps we shouldn’t allow foreign nationals to own…”

Perhaps we shouldn’t allow anyone to own weapons whose only purpose is to kill other human beings.

Keep your pistols, your shotguns, your hunting rifles…no sane reason to need any weapon meant to kill as many people possible in the shortest amount of time. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
10.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @10.1.1    last year
Perhaps we shouldn’t allow anyone to own weapons whose only purpose is to kill other human beings.

Exactly, this would have never happed if he was armed with a pistol.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
10.1.3  Jasper2529  replied to  afrayedknot @10.1.1    last year
no sane reason to need any weapon meant to kill as many people possible in the shortest amount of time. 

You've obviously never had to face armed robbers breaking into your business or home and be forced to protect the lives of your employees and family from the criminals.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
10.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @10.1.3    last year

It is always amazing to me that some folks can determine what the needs of others are without ever meeting them or knowing anything of their circumstances.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
10.1.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  afrayedknot @10.1.1    last year
no sane reason to need any weapon meant to kill as many people possible in the shortest amount of time.

So are you for banning all semi-automatic weapons or only this one particular because you were told to fear it?

I also notice that you, like others, are refusing to discuss the actual problem.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
10.1.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  afrayedknot @10.1.1    last year

Ah, but my AR is a hunting rifle that is recognized as being legal so I certainly will keep it thank you very much.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
10.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @10.1    last year

Folks who are in the country illegally, can not legally own a gun.

No new laws required.    What’s needed is better enforcement of the existing laws.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
10.1.8  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @10.1.6    last year

How can this be?    
My friends on the left tell me you can’t hunt with them.

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
10.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @10.1.8    last year

Well, hell, this is Texas.

I saddle all 11 of my AR-14's up with me, fully loaded, of course whenever I ride my horse inspecting my many oil wells!

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
10.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.9    last year

Yippee ki-yay!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
10.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @10.1.10    last year

tumblr_pkz0x3Nduq1uu6qs9o2_500.gif

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
11  Tacos!    last year
"Hundreds of Texas officers are  looking for the gunman  accused of killing five people after a dispute between neighbors."

Here is the story without the misleading title:

Nothing in that headline is misleading. It’s easy to get to more details in the story because there is more room for detail. Headlines, by their very nature, must leave out some details. Space is limited. This is the obvious flaw in this apples-to-oranges comparison.

The detail of the shooter being in the country is important, so I would expect it to be somewhere in the story. However, it is not as important as every detail that appeared in the headline.

Details as to the status of the victims is FAR less important, and perhaps only worth mentioning if it was somehow a relevant factor in their murder - i.e. the shooter killed them because they were in the country illegally and wouldn’t have killed them if they had legal status. So far, there is no reason to believe that is the case.

I wouldn’t object to a mention of their status, but it is the least important aspect of this story.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
12  Mark in Wyoming     last year

As far as mentioning the victims status , here is how i see that .

 how likely is someone that is in the country illegally to call the cops if something were to happen ? if they were the victim ?

It does raise a question .

 
 

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