States and cities sue over ‘public charge’ green card restrictions
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
A coalition of Democratic-led states and Washington, D.C., are suing the Trump administration to block a rule that makes it harder for immigrants to obtain green cards or even enter the country if they rely on public benefits.
The 22 states and D.C. are challenging the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) “public charge” rule , set to take effect Friday.
The states, led by New York Attorney General Letitia James (D), argue the rule will penalize immigrants and their families for using public benefits like food stamps, Medicaid or housing vouchers to which they are legally entitled.
“Hardworking families should not be forced to go without the support they need because they fear asking for assistance will get them deported,” James said in a statement. “This rule preys on that fear and counts on families forfeiting the food assistance, health care coverage, and other public benefits to which they are legally entitled.”
The lawsuit argues that under the rule, immigrants would need to stop using public assistance programs to meet their basic needs or risk being denied green cards in the future.
Noncitizens and family members would disenroll from programs, even though they are eligible, and the states argued they will lose billions of dollars in federal funding.
They said the rule is “arbitrary and capricious” and that the DHS both ignored the harmful consequences of the change and failed to adequately justify it.
“As households forgo their legal access to benefits—such as preventative healthcare, nutritional assistance, and school lunch—public health, local economies, public education, and public safety will suffer. The Final Rule will increase the prevalence of disease, drive up the costs of medical care, and increase poverty,” the lawsuit argued.
A separate lawsuit challenging the rule was filed by a group of local governments, led by New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani (D).
The Trump administration argues the rule is necessary to protect American taxpayers from subsidizing immigrants who may become dependent on public benefits.
The law focuses only on immigrants who are lawfully present and eligible to apply for permanent residency. Immigrants who are in the country illegally are not eligible for public benefits.
The final rule is a revival of a similar policy that the administration tried to impose during President Trump’s first term before it was met with legal challenges and later reversed by the Biden administration.
So-called “public charge” restrictions that bar immigrants from obtaining green cards if they are likely to rely on government assistance have been part of federal immigration policy for more than 140 years, but they have long focused only on cash benefit programs.
The Trump administration’s first attempt to change the rule broadened the types of benefits to include the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, most Medicaid benefits and certain housing programs.
The new rule has no limits of what can be considered, saying only the DHS “will consider the receipt of any means tested public benefits.”
For example, if a U.S. citizen child uses state-provided health insurance, that can be used against a noncitizen parent to deny them a green card. Officers could also count a child’s participation in a school’s free lunch program against their noncitizen parent’s application for citizenship.
“The final rule puts families in the untenable position of choosing between a U.S. citizen child’s access to healthcare, and their noncitizen parent’s ability to remain in the country,” the lawsuit argued.
The states’ suit was brought by the attorneys general of California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin and the District of Columbia, along with the governor of Pennsylvania.
Alongside New York City, the local lawsuit was brought by Chicago; the City and County of San Francisco; Santa Clara County, Calif.; Seattle; and King County, Wash.
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The playbook never gets old.
Every time. The sad part is the party's shills never seem to catch on (or they are in on it and don't mind lying).
Sean, really? Is greed good? Really?!!! What is all 'this' about faith and belief in God if all we are is a grouping of 'greedy bastards' determined to prove how we can cheat, steal, and destroy all "others"--just because we can?
How far is MAGA to take this 'survival of the fittest'? Because if it backfires on MAGA supporters. . . .!
It's funny you call not wanting to support the entire world with my tax dollars as "greed." I was raised to think believing others owe you and should spend their time working to support you is a much worse type of greed. Americans who actually pay taxes "not the takers", already spend their time and energy to make sure other Americans get free food, free or subsidized health care, housing etc etc.. All things above and beyond the "common good." Is there any limit to what you demand others sacrifice? Now you want us to support everyone in the world?
I'm also curious how you think the world works. Do you imagine open borders and welfare for immigrants is sustainable? We are already broke as a country. How much more will you demand Americans borrow from their kids to support foreigners who come here and won't support themselves? I was reading about some debates in 17th century England and what was striking how important the idea of preserving the inheritance of their progeny was to the argument. To preserve freedom, to not encumber them with debt was incredibly important. Now it's just "let's make everything as easy as possible for use and who gives a shit about those that come after us! Billions for foreigners? Why not, put it on the kids tab!" It's pure selfishness.
Jesus says to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to give to God what is God's.
As the seed is talking about immigration into a country it's obvious that the seed is talking about Ceasar and not God. So your commentary about faith and belief in God doesn't really fit this seed.
What? Snuffy, so you want White evangelicals to EXCLUDE God and Jesus from their daily 'practice' and worldview? Okay. . . so let's give all the discussion going forward to 'the World' (of Satan). It won't work, but you are free to try to 'fly' it:::till it falls to the ground.
Rhetorical - An interesting thought experiment: I wonder to myself how many EVANGELICALS, "persons of faith", "people of God,' or whatever "God's faithful" are calling themselves are on this forum - Rhetorical.
You see, it is a terrible thing to be a believer that never ever acknowledges his or her God- publicly. Jesus referred to it as 'standing in the shadows. . .afraid to stand in the Light.'
BTW, I had not intended to go down this path in this discussion, yet I am not ashamed of doing so. Others, maybe.
So much for the Democrat and leftist blathering that illegals aren't receiving benefits. Not like anybody with a functioning brain believed them in the first place.
No shit. That's the intent.
Every time.. And now they are spending even more taxpayer dollars to try and ensure the spigot remains on.
Kind of makes them as unreliable with facts as CNN.
“So much for the Democrat and leftist blathering that illegals aren't receiving benefits.”
Why would they need benefits? They bring so much to the table when it comes to the economy./s/ In fact, some would say they are the “backbone” of a certain city.
What is so f-king pathetic about this is how MAGA conservatives do not put together that ordinary workers are the backbone of this nation. It has always been that way. . . white collar workers. Immigration is the life-blood of this country. . . still. And, we have a bunch of yahoos who in a 'single' presidential term is seeking to turn immigration into a 'by-gone' - spurning and sending the 'wealth' of uncountable minds to other fields. . . when they were meant for us. We will lose for this shortsightedness. It could come into full relief when the next world war appears. . . and new emerging technologies come from overseas by IMMIGRATING "parties" there.
Everybody knows, immigration of all sorts, types, and backgrounds is the LIFEBLOOD of this country. It is an ESSENTIAL ingredient. And this foolish president bad mouths his own means of success. . . SHAME on the SHAMELESS!
What does that have to do with my comment? You’re talking about immigrants, my post refers to illegals.
Because some can only conflate the two and ignore the difference.
What do YOU/MAGA supporters know about immigration and whom you are displacing? It is not a simple matter of classification. . . "Gazoo"! People wishing to come here somehow see what about amounts to. . . "there but for the grace of God go I". . . abuse and 'tossing' of migrants, families, 'dreamers,' and oh by the way. . .preparations for MORE OF THE SAME AND ASSOCIATED PROJECTS TO COME. . . and they ask themselves. . . 'Do I want to be a part of that'? Is that a country I can belief in?
(Illegal immigrants that come here looking for a way out of desperate situations. . . place value on the goodwill they receive. . . HERE! Do not skip over that! Do not hold to hateful rhetoric about people seeking a home here just so they can take over the country. . . do not forget that we have 'countless' millions of immigrants here in this country. . . that have added their values-plural to us in ways we can not phantom, sometimes can not explain, and do not even know enough about to applause).
Therefore, the question is not individual migrant STATUS (legal or Illegal) it is the good they do (and conversely what is the HARM some do - because that can be 'removed.)
If America conducts itself like a first-class 'SPURNER' - know this. . . there are many audiences. . . many millions watching the backhand treatment given to their countrymen and their family members. . . and best believe when they arrive home. . . we are not being spoke about well. . . no matter how they got here. .. treating them like 'tossed dogs' (we do not toss dogs even!) is the IMPRESSION next generation wannabe immigrants to our country see and worse FEEL and THINK!
Once a 'thing' is set in motion of this magnitude. . . it takes on its own 'character'. . . and the message carries (and delivers) itself! MAGA supporters need to comprehend that what the world is 'hearing' is the MESSAGE MAGA is sending. . . and its the United States is 'MEAN'! (Cruel, vindictive, and sometimes EVIL.)
"Gazoo" that may seem like a good message for the world to 'get' in the short-term. . . and yet as is always-always-always the case. . . it is not the MESSAGE that 'next' generation immigrant CHILDREN need to hear from their parents. . . whom will tell their children. . . their 'nationals,' to TURN OFF to the United States and go to another country where they are appreciated. . . and even can be loved by the citizenry.
Careful what the collective you wish for. . . "you" just might get it. And then what?!
I'm very surprised you didn't read the article either.
Like comment #2 apparently.
and the responses?
Comment 2.2 reacting to comment 2?
from the article.
It allows the DHS to hold a citizen's use of rightful benefits against noncitizen family members by casting aspersions on them as takers and subjecting them to some sort of unwritten scoring system.
It certainly needs refinement unless DHS's intentions are to have the whole non citizen and citizen family self deport out of frustration.
I've heard that. Like the 1st idiotic sentence in 2.2.1. If they are so critical, then why weren't they critical in their home city?
[✘]
Who said those citizens were not important to their home city?! What you PROBABLY meant to say is, "Why have the ordinary workers (which outnumber the 'bosses') not removed the bosses? The answer is as simple as it is obvious: A lack of power.
Surely, you understand what power means, because you may realize that when the GOP loses its power throughout history, liberals enjoy a respite and advancement. Conversely, when the GOP gains power. . . individuals excel and the country as a whole does not.
However, that is you attempting to frame the discussion in a different direction. Surely you are human enough and have enough common sense to understand WHY people make drastic and urgent moves from their homes (under duress). Yet, MAGA supporters use their so-called "care and concern" for fighting against the least of these and not understanding practical realities that humans actually face.
Now then turning to your "idiotic sentence' retort. Who cares what greedy and gluttonous Trump supporters think is idiotic? Really. Y'all are boring. . .and dangerous.
The quote is correct.
Your interpretation of the quote to mean "illegals" instead of immigrants here legally, is where you obviously confused yourself.
Everyone knows illegals aren't eligible for anything.
Thanks for your participation.
Well, they're here aren't they. So must not be as critical as you want them to be.
That's your interpretation. And you're welcome to it.
Bullshit. They get free healthcare via ER medicine, free K-12 education, free school nutrition and WIC benefits, etc. [✘] One example is the quy running for senate in Michigan, Abdul, is pushing for a single payer healthcare system for all, including all illegal immigrants.[✘]
You have to understand (like you certainly do when it is in your 'interest') power in the control of the wrong politicians can be both "boring and dangerous."
Perhaps you should check that 'stat'. . .because it would not speak well of Jews in this country to be party affiliated with "Jew hater" liberals. Don't patronize Jews. . .they do not like that anymore than "the Blacks and Browns."
You have to give them credit for [messaging][✘]
I'm sure they all appreciate you calling them stupid too.
It's not an interpretation; it's definitions of words.
Immigrant: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence
Illegal: not according to or authorized by law : contrary to or in violation of a law
We have roughly 38 million LEGAL immigrants in this country and they are the ones being affected by these laws written by xenophobic dumb fuck bigots angry that we might dare feed someone who doesn't look like them or worship the same God (or maybe the worship the same God but call it Allah).
We are a nation of immigrants. I get that some white basic low IQ dumb fuck rent boys like to confuse the two types of immigrants, legal immigrants and undocumented immigrants, but they could not be more different. Legal immigration is a boon for our nation as immigrants are much harder workers than the lazy entitled poorly educated xenophobes. Immigration is one of the biggest drivers of U.S. economic growth. It expands our labor force, increases tax revenues, fills critical job shortages, and boosts innovation. Only the tired lazy, dumb fucks who want the handouts all for themselves but see them going to brown immigrants are pissed off about immigration. And of course, they're only pissed at immigration from the southern border, they don't care at all if Canadians are here or white South Africans, the bigots are trying to increase the white Christian immigration from South Africa when those white people fear for their lives, brown people in South America fearing for their lives don't even register as human to most of those rightwing conservative racists.
you sure? Yall like to change that shit up quite frequently.[✘]
Typical response.
Not in my state. Sounds like a local problem.
Lunacy is expecting to insult strangers with ridiculous generalizations and then be taken seriously.
Sounds like a local problem again, but I understand that he is a born here American, so there should be no fear over him because his name is different, right?
So are many on the right and in the middle.
Are you trying to gaslight everyone or are you trying to come on to me?
Sad is what you have become over the years, sad indeed.
Semper Fi
[✘]
Sure is. My responses are spot on and sadly ….
Super and nice if true. You should have specifically characterized it as such which you didn’t. So said bullshit was pointed out. Very properly. Deal with it
It’s a problem that reaffirms that the comment you made, was bullshit. Try to deal with the truth. Easy to respect if you do. Otherwise …. Meh
Lol …. You see lots of conservatives protesting …. Free Palestine, etc? Supporting October 7th actions via hatred for Israel? Pushing that America deserved 9-11? Cherry picking the right and middle on that is a sparse crop.
Yawn …. My comment is clear, concise and factual.
Outstanding projection there ….. outstanding!
Sorry I missed more of the drama.
Technically correct because it is Federal Law due to Ronald Reagan - one of those GOP presidents of the crazed Lunatic leftists /s
Pyle vs Doe SCOTUS, 1982. All of the Justices agreed that denying education would create a separate illiterate class in violation of the Equal Protection Clause and the 14th Amendment. The 4 dissents said it was up to Congress to fix, not SCOTUS.
In Texas they have to be brave enough to run the gauntlet of ICE patrols...to exercise those rights.
Here we are 44 years later, no solutions from Congress despite 30 years of GOP in the WH versus 20 years of Dems in the WH.
Why make that assumption? Are you prescient?
Jewish American families are divided, torn even. 1000% anti Hamas. 50/50 anti Netanyahu.
Torn over the memories of Warsaw when we see what happened to Gazza leaving many very unhappy with the IDF who were just "following orders"...like we heard at Neurenburg.
But you be you, all knowing, a fair & balanced expert on everything partisan.
It is amusing.
If the shoe fits
[✘]
[l][✘]
[✘]
Speaking of functioning brains – or non-functioning ones in this case – the very first sentence of this article tells you this has nothing to do with illegals.
It's simply a fact that undocumented individuals cannot legally receive benefits like SNAP or TANF.
Sure they can.. 59% of households headed by illegal aliens receive welfare benefits.
What do you want them to do. . .sit in rags and ash on 'every' street corner (like a church, mosque, or synagogue does) and beg for alms. . .why picking at their sores, warts, and bodily secretions. . . that may make MAGA supporters 'ID' each one better (by their so obvious not belonging), and yet it would SHAME THE SHAMELESS that sit in the pews on their holy days. . .reading words on sacrifice, patience, endurance, charity, and love.
These illegals are not all evil. . . many are innocent people cast out of their native homes due to violence, drugs, endless miseries. . . you may have heard. . . it's kind of like 'us' when we sit in our own piss and sh-t in the land of plenty. . . while the famous and infamous. . . take wealth upon wealth and stack it up in vaults to look at. . . . Such wealth is gawdy, tacky, and if one believes Jesus. . . will rot (much like the bodies of every dead king, queen, duke, and baron along with the rest of us).
BTW, where would MAGA supporters be today. . . had Native Americans repelled the 'invasion forces' from Europe and other 'parts' that came ashore here?
Conservative citizens of this country. . . do not own this country. It belongs to all of us! All. Of. Us. Working to make it a better country for all. of. us. And. Not. Just. Conservatives.
No one 'died' and had the power or wherewithal to will (leave) conservatives this country! That lie stops right now!
Show your work.
Households can contain legal citizens.
It's possible, sure. But you want to claim with a straight face that every single household headed by an illegal alien contains nothing but legal citizens?
Stay in their country and make it better. Isn't that the selling point? Their mere presence improves us? Seems mighty selfish to deprive countries that really need improving of such assets, doesn't it?
These illegals are not all evil
Who cares? Are they a benefit to the body politic or not? The people who benefit from illegals are corporations who get cheap workers and drive down wages and those who want to fundamentally change America, like the DSA guy Democrats use to rally their voters, who wants to use the Constitution to wipe his ass. If you don't care about Americans or American workers, importing millions while pushing for cultural separatism is a great idea. What easier way to destroy America? And if thousands of Americans are needlessly killed by illegals, so much the better, I guess, is the thinking. I'm not sure why else Democrats prioritize keeping violent, illegal criminals in this country.
ould MAGA supporters be today. . . had Native Americans repelled the 'invasion forces' from Europe and other 'parts' that came ashore here?
Not here, obviously. Do you think that example make allowing mass immigration more attractive? How'd that play out for Indians? At first, of course, many local Indians thought the invaders were a tool that could be exploited against their rivals. That ring a bell, at all?
citizens of this country. . . do not own this countr
Citizens do own this country. Do you believe citizenship has any value or meaning whatsoever? You seem to think American taxpayers have as much duty to support every single person who can afford a plane ticket from Timbuktu as they do their own families.
do you recognize any limit to your moral imperative that America pay for everyone who is poor? If you believe that, you must think its the same as murder to not fly every single person in every single slum in the world to Queens to receive American welfare. Why should illegals in Queens be worth saving with welfare money borrowed from future American generations those who stayed home not?
In your endeavor to (perpetually) side-step the point. . . it is not an INDIVIDUAL'S singular responsibility to 'save' (fix) a county which is wrecked by a multitude of issues including problems affecting life and limb. You know this already. . .just are unwilling to appreciate it because, well, 'your' country is a wreck. People come here to share in our peace, prosperity, and yes varying culture. . . many times our way of life is a 'departure' from their own. We can not begrudge us that.
BTW, how many MAGA supporters predecessors did not stay in their birth countries AND MAKE THEM BETTER? How many MAGA predecessors, including Donald's fled to the United States? Give immigrants fleeing. . . their country the same passage others granted MAGA 'flee-ers'!
THIS statement is beneath contempt and of no value. This country can benefit from the good that anyone can bring to it. You know this. Do not let blind rage or Trump acceptance blind you to that. Trying to turn good people away by 'demon-casting' is foolhardy. All anybody has to do (and have come to learn) is meet some of these individuals to know your rage is political posturing and without merit. (Also, if you have an issue with corporations. . . see them. . . maybe they can use that demon-casting!
Just a flight of fancy, I see. No one invited these immigrants here. . . they come because of the opportunities here to succeed. It would be nice if all the countries in the world would get their collective sh-t together. . .and yet that seems like a pipe dream when looking at the state of this world (and throughout history). What? Should people stay in miserable circumstances just to make MAGA SUPPORTERS happy?
MAGA supporters, this country is a shared COMMUNITY. No one group or class constitutionally owns this country! Let's dispense with that fiasco right now. All the citizens of this country get a say in who shares in this country's continued growth, development, and national character.
Maybe, the time has come for MALCONTENT MAGA supporters to exit this country. Does that strike the collective you as a WIN?
Answer: "Not here, obviously.
Thank you. Had they "86'ed" Europeans from the outset (not allowed to land or 'stay' - persona non grata) your predecessors would have returned home or become wanderers (without a country). And oh look, you're here. Trying to possess something that is not yours alone and never can be yours alone.
End of (that) discussion!
How? Name me the citizens that own this country. Hell, ask the Native Americans that originally occupied this land. . . if they owned it. . .why the 'f-k' do MAGA supporters disrespect their rights to their land (decisions and rights)? Please proceed.
You presume too much. What does "everyone who is poor" have to do with 'everyone' you term "illegal"? Figure out what you wish to argue, before you head 'out' to do so.
What?!
Future generations? That is a reach. Granted. It would be nice to leave something for the 'Next' generation. . . you do not do that by being a national nasty embarrassment of a present population. . . why? Because all things being equal. . . future generations most likely would REBUKE this present generation for its coarseness and most likely feel FORCED to nationally apologize for 'Us' . . interestingly, that has already happened once or twice in this country. . . .HUH?!
So take wat what quoted and put it with what I said.[✘]
Oh cry me a fkng river. Many come here, illegally, and make no attempt to better themselves. Many come here, illegally, and continue their criminal lifestyle.
They're not all fkng saints. How many people have been killed at the hands of illegals? How many are drug traffickers? Here is a good start point for you to answer those questions:
And they inflict the violence, drugs, endless miseries on US Citizens.
Try to keep on topic.
So why are liberals trying to undermine that?
Stay in their country and don't try to come here!
Who the hell is caring about criminals, Jeremy? If they were so easy to corral. . .it would have occurred at the border crossing and you damn sure can not expect people to look at every migrant and classify them as 'undesirables.' Of course, MAGA supporters think they can, and yet y'all do not even like your fellow citizens that are born and live here. Yes, that!
MAGA supporters talk and write a lot of sh-t. . . and that is all it is sh-t tossed up in the air. . . for any fool stupid enough to look up with his or her lips parted for what comes back down!
So you are forced to admit there are "saints" in the illegal population. That was not too straining and grating on you, I hope. Here is some stats (and you won't even have to take half a day to analyze them like that "cbp" link you thought I would spend time on):
"Yankee go home" sounds eerily familiar.
I prefer" foreigner go home"
Well, as long as you UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT that the 'door' swings both ways. After all, international countries can do BAD all by themselves. . . .!
And, how about those white South Africans that our president SELECTED and lied on South African to get here. . . how come they are legal citizens and did it really take a false narrative to get them citizenship? Now they have dual citizenship. . Afrikaner and Naturalized Citizens in our country. . ..so another Trump lie is 'complete.'
Again, show your work.
It is illegal for undocumented individuals to claim welfare benefits. It's been federal law since 1996 – under Clinton and a Democratic administration, by the way.
Correct nomenclature? It's not about "illegals".
They don't seem to cause trouble and are legal
There you go. That's the correct nomenclature.
The likes of yourself.
And instead Democrats welcomed them in with open arms.
They come across the border illegally you damn sure can.
A "saint" would be doing the right thing. Not crossing the border illegally.
And exactly what question did you present to AI to get your answer? Yes, that makes a difference.
And lest we forget. . .they are WHITE! It's the elephant in the room positioned here by another 'Elephant' named Trump who indicates a preference. And for the record, the lie that got them here is Africa was hurting them so bring them here. . . and then the same Elephant is casting other legal immigrants fleeing real (not fake narrative) violence and political upheavals!
Where is the appreciation for Others being removed and returned to harm from your party? Monitor the double standard.
Delusion and tall tales abound in MAGA land! Believe in the world you imagine. . . . Native Americans want 'us' with our illegal butts to leave, and of course we ain't going nowhere. . . mostly because we have no where else to call home.
" .they are WHITE!"
Is something wrong with that?
Re-read the comment. The "Question" is there in plain sight for all to see, Jeremy!
Nope, being White is not a problem for me. Before you go there, I have dated many whites, so work that into your understanding. Being White is not a problem in itself. The lie is WRONG and DISTORTION that got them here. Similarly, the lie that Haitians "are eating the dogs and cats" is WRONG AND A DISTORTION which aided in getting this pathological liar president -MAGA supported in office.
. (I think we all know that. Maybe y'all like liars lying to you over and over again. . .most of us are taught that lying is a loser's game. . .eventually leading to the bottom falling out beneath the prevaricator/s.)
It's not that something is wrong with that. It's that bigoted pieces of shit think that means something is 'right' about the immigrant making them 'okay' to come to America when compared to other immigrants that don't have the same skin color but are often in even more dangerous regions than any white South African farmer is fleeing.
I have no problem letting white South African farmers apply for asylum status as long as they are treated EXACTLY like EVERY OTHER immigrant regardless of region, skin color, culture or religion if they are in fear for their lives which is what the legal asylum process was agreed upon by the US to do legally. Of course, that process can take a long time so those white South African farmers AND every other nation asylum seeker should be given temporary status while their case goes through the courts. Sending those farmers back, perhaps to their deaths, would be inhumane, as it would be with sending any person of any culture or skin color back to face potential death while they wait months or even years for their case to be heard.
Again, nothing wrong with 'white' as long as there's nothing wrong with every other shade of skin.
So no answer to my question. Just continued incomprehendible blathering.[✘]
Ok. So I missed it.
But that doesn't "jive" with their perceptions or the dispersions' that Dear Leader invents, exaggerates and spreads.
Conservative and liberal think tanks alike say immigration is essential and beneficial to our economy, from all classes of immigrants.
The 59% is from a commonly used CIS report which states Households and included green card holders, permanent legal aliens and supposedly illegal immigrants but they refuse to say how they came to a conclusion on the number of illegals.
Illegals just don't tell Pollers they are here illegally, it's a ridiculous assumption.
Meanwhile hundreds of large corporations pay nothing in annual taxes.
top 100 corporations that haven't paid income taxes in years - Search
We have a record debt, losing war and running out of supplies but the Relator in Chief wants to assault D.C. and Arlington with an Arch twice the size of the Lincon memorial, a Ballroom no one ever suggested, a botched Reflecting pool project that he blasted other Presidents for and has had a major melt down over not being allowed to share the Kennedy Center which he now wants to tear down for spite.
For those who want immigrants, what are you willing to give up for them?
Julius S. Oppenheimer (father of J. R. Oppenheimer). Jerry Yang, (co-founder of Yahoo.) Albert Einstein (renowned scientist.) /s
they raised the average and didn't want us to change to suit them
What?!
I don't give up anything for them. I know they enrich our nation, and I love all the varieties of food, language and culture. They make America more vibrant and warm despite what all the whiny xenophobes claim as they scream at the top of their lungs about some anecdotal case of an immigrant doing something horrible. Though apparently, they're having a tough time finding new stuff closer to home so they're having to source material from Europe of late to fuel their weird stupid racist obsessions.
The facts show immigrants are a huge boon for our country and we should be figuring out ways to allow more to legally immigrate and it's also a moral duty to help those in fear of their lives which is why we have an asylum process.
Personally, I'd much rather have an asylum-seeking immigrant family from South America stay in my home if America was that tight on space (we're not) than an American screaming about immigrant's takin 'all our jabs!'. Those folk are some sad losers I know I would learn nothing from. I've sat in rooms with my Trump supporting cousins in Arkansas every few years when one of their new dumbest generations gets married, and frankly, they're all dumb as shit and proud of it for some fucking reason, which is why I know for a certainty I'd much rather enjoy an evening cooking for, sharing stories, and helping those in actual need instead of some losers trying to bilk their government aid and cheat because they say 'the liberals do it so why shouldn't I?".
So, maybe giving up never flying to Arkansas again, but that's about it.
your relatives are citizens and have a right to be here. We are stuck with them.
My family doctor when I was a child was Filipino. I had instructors in dental school who were German, Greek, Indian, and Korean. My sister was employed for years by a gastroenterologist from Iraq who treated her like family.
And now that we had all those come here, times have changed and the place is full. We don't have the room, to keep taking in more.
A country is not 'full' as we have people birthing and dying everyday. . .all day. BTW, republicans attempting to MAKE women birth multiple babies they do not want. . . is not FREEDOM which y'all SAY with your lips (talking points) and only mean to offer and provide to those with a conservative viewpoint.
they'll be plenty of room available here, after we deport the scum that think a POTUS can override the constitution ...
I strongly support abortion rights; as a person's individual right and FREEDOM, so that children are wanted and raised properly and because of overpopulation
And I have expressed that here many times, loudly and longly
Good on you! And I have to accept that, even if you have to remind me, us, from time to time because the GOP prolife (division) will not permit girls and women the freedom they deserve to decide when it is commonsensically their right to do so.
For those who want immigrants, what are you willing to give up for them?
I am willing to give up on hiring only expensive, lazy American contractors who don’t show up on time and do poor quality work. I am also willing to give up a social security system that is chronically underfunded. I’m willing to give up the racist attitudes that flourish every time ICE murders someone and gets away with it. There’s lots more to mention but this is just a rhetorical exercise.
So you want to lower our standard of living by employing cheap labor?
Those cheap wages and working without paying into social security undercut your argument on underfunding social security
If there were not so many problems caused by immigration, we would not need to have ICE.
Hard to square this circle.
Yes that seems to be a contradiction.
Personal experience times ten. Also, I didn’t realize that Americans is a “race”. Thanks for demonstrating your racism.
Hilarious. How has your standard of living improved since the deporter in chief took office? Enjoying cheap gas and groceries yet? How about finding a reasonably priced contractor for some home improvements? How’s your utility bill?
Really? Interesting experience you are pushing there. I spent nearly 50 years working for and hiring American contractors. The weak ones didn’t get hired and/or quickly went out of business. The “lazy American” Contracting firm I co-owned lasted 47 years. Many last longer. Dozens of employees retired from our company with full retirement and healthcare benefits.
Would love to hear where your experience comes from. Feel free to share.
First, this is NOT a debate over undocumented immigrants, it's about legal immigration where there would be following all the laws and paying taxes like any other American.
Second, even the undocumeneted immigrants pay into social security even though they DO NOT get to ever withdraw those benefits.
Also to note:
America has plenty of physical space . The United States has millions of square miles of land, averaging roughly seven acres of land for every single person in the country.
Trump says ‘our country is full,’ but we could actually add a few trillion more people - The Washington Post
The entire population on earth could fit into an area the size of Texas and give each person about 1000 sq feet of personal space.
country is still overcrowed. Illegal and legal ones still add to overcrowding making things worse for citizens
do you want to live in 1,000 square feet in Texas?
Person doing my work is very reasonable. Deporting is one thing I want him to do
Thats not the point. The earth is not geographically overpopulated in any way shape or form. The United States could have a billion people and it would not be geographically overpopulated. The issue is resources and the ability to provide services.
The ability or financial motivation to provide infrastructure and services and that financial motivation grows when you have more consumers aka legal immigrants wanting to live in the 1000 sq ft in Texas which is eminently more preferable to them than the 242 sq ft they have in places like the Gaza strip.
Of course, it must be regulated, controlled and immigrants must be properly vetted but there are millions of immigrants who want nothing but to work hard for fair pay to make a living and raise their families, just like most Americans. And immigrants bring demand which is half the equation for our capitalist system to operate properly. Then it's just a matter of supply and we have a large supply of lots of things that would enable immigrants to live, thrive and grow our cities. Are there going to be challenges we all have to face like fresh water supplies, energy, environmental impacts, and yes, even increased crime. Are there always going to be some bad apples among the populace who look for the quick score and hurt those around them with their criminal acts? Yes, just like there are among the American population.
But space, resources and the benefits of immigration should be a separate debate from how we police our nation, including how we police the legal immigrant population (which should be no different than we police any red hat wearing Trump sycophant). And even when it comes to policing the undocumented immigrant population, fear and intimidation is not only not required, but also harmful and basically removes any higher ground we might have had when negotiating with nations with poor to horrendous human rights records. We go from being a leader of western free capitalist democracies around the world to being the nation that can't even really criticize China anymore for their human rights abuses.
I lived in a 1000 sq ft of texas and it wasn't so bad, but it was on the beach with an unobstructed view of the gulf. venturing out among the free range goobers sometimes got a bit dicey, but I faked the lingo fluently and the subculture pretty well.
everybody would not get the coast, and you might end up next to someone you didn't like
meh, when I was in texas, I was surrounded by racist goobers that deserved a permanent attitude adjustment ...
There's no guarantee that won't happen, regardless of how concentrated population is. I have 3 acres, as does everybody else in my neighborhood, so we all have plenty of space. The neighbor just up the hill from me used to have a son living with him who blocked my driveway all the time, keeping me from accessing my house. The guy behind me keeps setting fires that get away from him, to the point that the fire department has now been out here 5 times, once because his fire got into the national forest. He's fairly frequently drunk and can be pretty belligerent when he is.
Yes, I have a nutty neighbor.
Exactly.
I don't know if you've noticed the frequent appearance of blue lights at my office, but the nuttiness isn't just around my house. The upstairs tenants have been pretty dramatic lately. The guy, who I used to think was getting his life straightened out, has been cuffed and stuffed twice in the last month.
The thing is, all of them are native US citizens, and none of them live in an especially crowded area.
Come to think of it, all of my nutty neighbors have done some time in lockup of some sort or other, except maybe the son of the guy next door. I think he moved to Richmond and local law enforcement decided it wasn't worth going after him there, since he was no longer causing trouble here. He tried to smuggle drugs into the jail, back when we still had a county jail. He was stupid enough to put his plans in writing, and dropped the paper in another neighbor's yard. I'm sure his pals appreciated having their names and phone numbers in police hands on incriminating evidence, so maybe he's safer in Richmond from both his pals and the cops.
Police have been up the hill a lot lately, but some problems have moved out
That 1,000 square feet is conditional. That is, the world ENTIRE population is causing overcrowding IN TEXAS. There is no way (in heaven or hell) that the entirety of people on Earth wants to dwell in the confines of Texas (no matter how good it is or could become).
Still 'knocking' legal immigration. Tell me, should we ask the Afrikaners this administration lied to get here to go by to Africa (free tickets and boarding passes as an offering)?
I’ve got way more stories than you have time to read them, and I’ve expressed them here numerous times in the past. The only time I’ve chosen a low-bid non-immigrant, I learned that the guy used exclusively immigrant labor and he never showed up on site outside of the initial consult. His guys were great and he knew it, to the point that his contract expressly forbid clients from trying to hire the laborers directly for future work. The guy did nothing himself but the paperwork, and he fucked that up too. We discussed everything I wanted, he had me sign a contract that didn’t even outline what we discussed, and it turned out that the reason his price was acceptable was that he forgot to include some stuff he couldn’t deny that we discussed. The next time I had him bid work he tried to recoup what he lost by inflating his bid, and subsequently lost out on that work.
Other non-immigrant contractors routinely came in twice as high as their immigrant competitors, and I had to hound them to get their bid in to me so I could compare them. Now I’m using a handyman friend for small jobs, who uses his non-immigrant family and friends to help him. They do great work, but it’s clearly cheaper than any actual contractor would bid. For his price and the quality of his work, I don’t even care that when his truck door opens up a cloud of pot smoke rolls out like something out of a Cheech and Chong movie.
I did exterior trim in the 70's. that's what the "set-up" charge is for, along with the morning and afternoon breaks ...
other admistrations have brought much worse.
Is there a reason you don't like that group?
Well, large scale Contracting and Construction Management was much different in my neck of the woods. Didn’t have the problems you are voicing at all. Hardly at all.
Person doing my work is very reasonable. Deporting is one thing I want him to do
You are employing an immigrant, and you want him deported? Help me make sense of that.
NO! You brought up multiple points, and I addressed 2 of them.
The grandparents of the contractor that does my work were born in this country
You referenced "deporter in chief ' and that is who I want to do a lot more deporting
Thanks for clarifying.
Just saw this one: Nope. I love all God's people - exception liars, cheaters, and thieves.
BTW, to your opinion that the U.S. is full. Here's Tennessee:
Question: Can we declare the state of Tennessee overpopulated?
Duck AI
GPT 5.6 Luna
Not statewide in any objective sense—but parts of Tennessee may reasonably feel overburdened by rapid growth.
Tennessee had about 7.32 million residents in 2025, adding nearly 64,000 people in one year and ranking among the nation’s fastest-growing states. Yet its 2020 population density was about 168 people per square mile, which is not especially high nationally.
University of Tennessee, Knoxville
The more accurate distinction is:
Statewide: “Overpopulated” is too broad. Tennessee still has substantial rural land and relatively moderate overall density.
Specific metro areas and counties: Places such as Nashville and its surrounding counties, parts of Knoxville, Chattanooga, and Clarksville are experiencing pressure on housing, roads, schools, utilities, and public services.
Quality of growth: The issue is less the absolute number of residents than whether housing, transportation, water systems, healthcare, and other infrastructure are keeping pace.
So a defensible statement would be: “Some rapidly growing parts of Tennessee are experiencing infrastructure and housing strain,” rather than “Tennessee is overpopulated.” “Overpopulated” implies that the state has exceeded its carrying capacity, and there is no single accepted threshold for making that determination
Governments are scared to acknowledge overpopulation because they don't want to deal with it or know how.
And yet SOMEHOW you know government 'secrets.' How is that, care to explain how you know Tennessee's? . . . .
it is not secret, they just avoid the topic like many things
On what authority are you writing this?
who's do I need?
Fact-finding (sourcing) . . . . Know what? Never-mind. This has become tedious.
Our roads are overcrowded, schools full, townhouse built everywhere, not enough water, not enough energy sources and yet some think it is a good idea to keep letting anybody just come here and add to the problems.
not enough energy sources and yet some think it is a good idea to keep letting anybody just come here and add to the problems.
Look at the arguments behind that. A straight out moral claim that American's have the moral duty to borrow money from their progeny shower every person who can make it here with welfare benefits. They can't articulate a limit to that. If it's a moral question, why does the physical location of the migrant matter. If you believe Americans must borrow money to support anyone poor (or who wants free shit) who comes to America, than that same argument applies to anyone, anywhere in the world who needs it.
Believing they enrich our nation as a matter of faith. That's all it is. It's no different than the rote declarations believers make about their beliefs, except they are talking about the spiritual world and what happens after death, and since no one who isn't dead can truly know what happens after death, it's at least a coherent belief system. We know, unequivocally, due to thousands of years of recorded history, that mass migration changes the country who is invaded. It's inarguable. It could work out terrifically and you get more diverse food and marginal gdp growth (very rich people=happy!). But as we've seen time and time again, it can destroy civilizations or destabilize them by causing balkanization and sectarianism. What's truly amazing is they recognize this. It's one of their foundational beliefs. The evil Europeans migrated and destroyed they civilization they essentially worship in the very land they sit upon. And for reasons that make no logical sense or reason, they think pointing that out helps their case.
And the final "My experiences are good, therefore it must be a universal truth". Of course, they'll never think "what if I were a devout Jewish person who lives in a place like Dearborn, Michigan. Would I enjoy the "diversity" that public officials supporting Hamas brings?" They benefit personally, or believe they do, so all the data in the world about the economic effects mass migration has the working class (lower wages, more crime, worse schools, higher housing costs etc..) bounce right off them. Actual evidence doesn't matter. Here's what Robert Putnum found in his landmark study on what increased "diversity" does to local communities:
These findings just get ignored. They don't like them, it doesn't fit the narrative they were taught, so they just ignore them.
Not if you're not a xenophobe who judges people by their appearance and assumes all Muslims are just biding their time to kill you.
Not if you're not a xenophobe.
Not if you're not a xenophobe.
Pretty much all of the complaints disappear when a person stops being a fucking racist assigning people who look different than them 'motives', 'objectives', 'hate', all the things weak minded little shits were taught to fear by their likely not well traveled, poorly educated xenophobic conservative Christian parents and peers.
There are MANY thriving cities with just about every combination of race and culture in America. New York is a great example, and while some bitter bigots grumble about all the downsides of NY, they ignore the huge amount of profit it generates for our nation, the innovation, ideas, trillions of dollars flow through that city and all the backwards bigots can do is whine about how crowded it feels or all the diversity on every street corner and how it doesn't feel like "their" America anymore. Well fuck them, fuck them right in the ear because they're not the ones bringing in the money and the tourists and the investments. Who wants to go down into Trump country and risk 'Deliverance'? I'll take a dark ally in NY City any day over a backwoods moonshine still party of Trump sycophants.
meh, I consider most trump supporters as christo-fascist traitors that are too ignorant to think for themselves ...
[✘] Here, of course, the research involves all people in a community not just the groups most progressives are fine stereotyping. So Muslims and not just those who " assume all Muslims are just biding their time to kill you." have the same reactions. The results are community wide, which anyone with the tiniest bit of exposure to history or human nature would expect.
Who wants to go down into Trump country and risk 'Deliverance'[✘]
That was a claim that people like me don't like rapists, though it is telling that some see abducting a person and raping them in the woods as just 'homosexual' activity.
I get it, some people are WAY too fucking obsessed with Marxists and Muslims and fear this and fear that and they all want us to listen because they're the only ones who know! Those are called crazy people that don't even deserve a response to their lunatic ravings. They can fuck right off.
I know all too well from one side of my family what Trump country is about, and I know from the other side of my family, my older sisters second marriage is to a Jordanian American. Though they're both Christians he has family that are Muslim that live with them here in CA. that I have also shared many meals with, so I know who I would rather be my neighbor, and it wouldn't be my loudmouth proud for no fucking reason idiot cousins in Arkansas.
What research? Are you saying that the studies showing we should be wary of Islamic extremism and radicalization justify fearing their communities as a whole? If so, why doesn't that apply for the research showing we should be wary of rightwing extremism and radicalization and we should fear communities of rightwing conservative Christians and keep an eye on them if they're ever in your store or call the police on them if they appear to be loitering to long at the park or a mall?
most maga accusations are usually confessions ...
The comment is biased and hypercritical. It's even is self-serving. People come here because they can not exist where they are. . .and more to the point. . .we appeared to the world as 'welcoming' of the immigrant. . .until now. Sure, too many people coming can manifest itself as a problem. . . so regulation is needed. However, no immigration or partisanship (a newly 'pampered' word around here) is not acceptable. In fact, both of those things are UNACCEPTABLE.
Additionally, New York state (4th largest state in the country) and New York City (the largest city in the country) are not complaining about population size or diversity (New York City is the most linguistically diverse city in this country. Estimation: 800 languages spoken).
Also, most of the people doing the complaining or trying to have their way with other states outside of their own, live in small towns and villages where they feel insulated and sheltered from the realities of those surrounding them. That is, these insulated states' realities are not the realities of states that are practice what they preach - Diversity.
Do "we" as a nation NOT know how to protect, deal with, accept the INNOCENT while repelling and removing the Ungrateful? When in our minds is it "Okay" to treat all people as demons and 'demonics' bend on our discussion or desirous of our defeat? It is not and has never bend so. Indeed, if we had taken such an outlook in past history. . . this country would not be in the preeminent position it is in today.
Granted, we have a national debt problem, and that is not because of the immigrants coming here. . . we spend too much and we have long-term politicians that for some damn reason refuse to brain-storm our way out of it. That has little or nothing to do with INNOCENT, DECENT, HUMANS coming here to escape their own 'destruction' in faraway places. Hell, your ANCESTORS told horror stories of running and coming to the Americas themselves. In fact, those predecessors EXCEL and consider not only their survival - they consider their THRIVING in our country to first being allowed to come and continue here!
Let the truth shame the Dev—. . .
So subjecting our taxpaying Citizens to unnecessary danger is a good Idea?
And again, a long time ago there was room and need for settlers, those days are long gone.
No room at the Inn
[✘]
That comment is a digression in part. Define "unnecessary danger" - please. Because your predecessors come to mind and Native Americans might want their room back. . . any plan to give "it" back to them? I'll take the short answer, please.
You forget who won the wars with Indians, Military victory eliminated any bogus claim there
Unnecessary danger is what foreigners are putting Citizens in.
Also it is recorded history that one of my ancestors paid Shawnee Indians twice for same land in the Shenandoah Valley
You went there, eh? Well, African slaves 'lost' to get here. Want to go there, too? Beyond that. . . I am not going to dignify it. Own imperialism and boast away! And when you do remember that those 'spoils' came about by. . .wait for it. . .IMMIGRANTS.
Immigrants took over Native American land. And your ancestors did not properly pay for the 'pleasure' or 'receipts garnered. Even lied in treatises. . .I digress, nevertheless.
Sure I went there. I was talking about Indian Wars. . Again Military Victory is History.
What does slaves have to do with Indian wars? Who captured the slaves and sold them? Not the US Army. I never heard of them going to Africa and rounding up slaves. It was other Africans who they "lost" to.
Good for 'one' of your ancestors-I reckon. What about the other ones?! Sorry! We can't validate that, nevertheless. (I will keep it in mind all the same.
) With that in mind I will modify my statement: Some original colonizers/immigrants come to mind, and Native Americans might want their room back. . . any plan to give "it" back to them?
My Ancestor's grant came from the King of England which made it legal as that's the way it was then.
I could validate it but I don't put names or personal information here
Give it back? why would I do something that silly?
I have a legal deed and have paid taxes on my properties for many years. It is the government's duty to protect my ownership. I also have title insurance.
Yes, those Africans did lose to other Africans. . . It was a 'local' and nation thing. And guess who showed up to aid and invent the losers exploitation. The colonists to the Americas. Set up a damn national industry-pronounced: "Capitalism!"
BTW, since you went there. . .do you 'ponder' rather or not the African countries that participated in ridding themselves of 'pesty' losers. . .understood how treacherous the immigrants in the colonies would be to Africans? The plain disdain, hatred, and worse. . . racism that the world had up to then not known?
Shame, Shame. Shame!
Okay. So as it turns out the King of England is not saying the things MAGA supporters are saying 'today'! So, one has to wonder why. . . .
And the big profit on triangle trade went to New England Bankers.
You 'enter' it into the 'record' unsubstantiated. I understand and accept that. (Note: I did not ask you for personal anecdotes needing proof.)
The tree inherits the poison from its roots, comes to mind. . . .
Pray pardon me?
you plan on giving you property up?
Right after the government gives its property back! Afterall, the government of the 'states' gave African Americans their property under its authority. That said, Sure!
Because it would not work well for me to want to hold to it alone. Now then, how about you?
My ancestors were not party to its general taking anyway! Remember this: According to Supreme Court Justice Taney:
nutrition comes from the roots, too.
In that case, have 'fun' writing. The truth stands its ground!
So which is it for the GOP: Do we need to stop immigrants from legally arriving here or merely make a judgement call on what type of human is a 'proper' fit here. If is the latter is the case, where does asylum fit in to this? Speak to that.
Furthermore, and more to the point, if the GOP is pushing the talking point that the country is "full" (whatever that means), why is it COMPELLING girls and women to give up their choice of aborting babies they can not afford, are not mentally and physically prepared to care for, and making it an issue of morality for this nation?
(We're "full" - right?)
I say we are full and immigration is so fouled up that we stop immigration for 10 years and remove all illegals and any legal immigrant that cause problems.
Only exception might be for foreigner who marries a US Citizen.
Asylum seekers will have to seek somewhere else; we have already done more than enough.
I support abortion rights as in 3.4.3
We are full, let's try take care of Citizens, we have enough problem with our own people
So basically, turn us into East Germany during the cold war, wonderful idea. /s
In case you weren't listening, the US isn't full, it can fit hundreds of more people if we simply decided we wanted to continue to grow and build more infrastructure throughout the Midwest. In fact, there are many towns drying up due to lack of population and are trying desperately to get people to move to their towns.
You can't legislate any of that. We are not 'full' with people birthing and dying everyday. It's a talking point. . .and more to the point itself is a sentiment. And we have been told too many times, MAGA supporters do not operate on FEELINGS. So what the heck are you doing on their account posting your feelings?!
Lots of governments like to give away taxpayer money on all types of programs
They should help the people already there
I am Independent
It is better to have a smaller population with Citizens better off than dividing the pie into ever smaller parts
Quality over quantity
We should stop investing in people becoming trillionaires (as if money itself is 'the Limit.'). . .how about investing and believing in PEOPLE once and for always?!
At what point does money become gaudy?
Of course, I can respect that as a consideration. However, as a minority, I can actually remember a time in this country when songwriters and 'consciousness' musicians and singers made songs about "getting a piece of the pie." (American Dream.)
However, for those evangelical conservatives Jesus told 'us' about greed, gluttonous, "building too many and too high barns," and human compassion (we all in this (world) striving together).
as long as it shows a positive result and they appreciate it .
I see too much of people using "investing in people "programs as a lifestyle and them complaining they are not getting enough
Okay, well deal with that specifically and not generalizing the whole based on its 'component' that is likely broke and needs repairs! (Scalpel and not a cleaver.) :)
I'm not the one proposing to spend more money there, Just pointing out there is a problem with it. That is why I am wary
East Germany wasn't keeping people out, they were keeping their people in.
They were doing both in an isolationist control structure that made the people they were supposedly trying to keep 'safe' prisoners in their own homes. That is what your suggestion above would do turning America into a police state all to achieve some fantasy level of space per citizen quota. And while to some people that goal sounds reasonable and achievable, those people are fucking idiots and their opinion is being swayed by their prejudices as anyone with more than half a brain can see that the implementation of such an attempt would create the very fascist system of government we fought so hard to defeat last century.
Where did I say anything about wanting to keep people from weaving?
If they want to leave that reduces overcrowding and probably makes them some other places problem
I forgot to add that more people make more pollution.
Now you are 'grasping' for anything negative to blame on Others. I am familiar with that: Afterall, I was born under a lie that homosexuals were a "national security threat" in the armed services and that so-called, reasonable "logic" persisted through my youth into my middle ages. . . only to realize that all that was necessary to alleviate any such 'concern' was to take homosexuality off the list of 'Undesirables.'
MAGA supporters need to realize if you are going to be members of the human race. . .members of a free society. . .you really need to let good and innocent people be free to be themselves and share in the world surrounding them. . . and MAGA supporters!
It is TRUE. More people cause more pollution, and immigration brings more people to cause pollution and use up resources. We do something for the environment and then let more people in and the pollution reduction is gone. Not hard to see. Simple math. Overpopulation is bad in many ways and immigration is a major factor
That comment is grasping. . . as we are not overpopulated and won't be any time soon. Besides it is the role of congress to MONITOR immigration in a country established on/by immigrants. . .not to end its 'surplus' - arbitrarily (and based on a lie deployed as a talking point).
Some say climate change is man made, if that is true then more people make climate change worse. That proves we are overpopulated.
Define. . . "We" please.
Okay, maybe I confused you. . .I want the defining of "we" as in "WHO".
Until the needs and wants of US Citizens are satisfied. Immigration should be halted.
Some short term labor might be needed but they don't get to stay
Did Native Americans imply, suggest, offer your predecessors "short-term labor" and a return ticket to potential imprisonments, mental and physical ruin, or obscene and indecent (foreign) governments control?
Question: Why does MAGA supporters 'speak' as though immigration is a black or white (strictly defined) issue? (Your ancestors did not do that! Why not? Because they needed immigrants. . . and guess what. . .the GOP is requiring girls and women to 'pony-up' and MAKE babies in lieu of true freedom to decide for themselves just to APPEASE (another word the GOP has abused themselves of) their greedy appetites to control what FREEDOM is - as a 'Construct.'
I don't think that question was ever asked. And I don't think Indians had the ability to force the issue.
The days of needing immigrants is over, All the Indian land has been taken.
With regard to Indians, back then all the immigrants, that you keep bring up, had to do was push the Indians away.
Define: "Push the [Native Americans] away" . . . .
That's just what they did. It's History. Westward expansion. To the immigrants the Indians were in the way.
So now, the 'expanders' of today. . .strive to push the immigrants of today out and away. . . . Got it! What is wrong with this picture?
Nothing,
Keeping what we have and protecting it
There is nothing wrong with this picture. The immigrants obtained the land the same way the Indians did, bought it, bartered for it, conqured it. It's not a foreign concept. It's been happening for centuries.
They im-mi-grated here. Your ancestors IM-MI-GRATED to the Americas. Just like all comers after them. The country belongs to the diverse people ("immigrants") that are accepted into it. . . not 'hardcases' that think that they can arbitrarily order people around (and out) of it. Ownership is the LIE y'all tell yourselves, and for too long y'all have been allowed to carry that delusion in communications. . . time for that MYTH to be broken down and trashed. Conservatives in this country do not own this country. This country belongs to all of us that are citizens and live out our lives here.
And by the way that imperialistic attitude is the problem MAGA supporters have--always attempting and wanting the citizenry to kiss conservative butts to get along with y'all.
Once again, they obtained the land the same way the Indians did, bought it, bartered for it, conquered it. It's not a foreign concept. It's been happening for centuries.
Once again: See 5.1.8.
In fact, if (a big IF) your ancestors had not im-mi-grat-ed to the 'states,' MAGA supporters (today's tribalists and aggressors) would essentially require somebody's to be gracious to let you in.
I have work to do tomorrow so I must go now.
Good night.